brnd
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Post by brnd on Sept 22, 2006 2:37:56 GMT 10
As death is a temporary state between one period of life and activity and another, could it reasonably be thought of as a ‘sleep’?
Indeed, the bible often describes death, for those who share Job's hope of resurrection, as a sleep. "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." (Daniel 12:2). In deep sleep there is no consciousness of the passing of time. Whether we awake from death after one year or like Daniel after many centuries makes no difference. "For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night . . . they are as a sleep." (Psalm 90:4).
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Sept 22, 2006 2:42:14 GMT 10
As death is a temporary state between one period of life and activity and another, could it reasonably be thought of as a ‘sleep’?
Then Jesus said unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead." "Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already."
One can imagine the grief of Lazarus' sisters. Mary sat still in the house. Martha went out to meet him full of the turmoil of emotions which often follows bereavement: grief, and a little anger, as she said to Jesus: "Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died." Though not stated her implied question seems to have been: "Why have you been so long coming?"
Jesus said quietly to her: "Thy brother shall rise again." [Note that he did NOT say: Your brother has not really died. His soul has gone to heaven. He is really still here with us, but just not visible to us.]
Jesus called Lazarus from the tomb where he had lain for four days. He did not call back his ‘soul’ from heaven to make it dwell on earth again for a few more years. Lazarus had no tale to tell about being in paradise for four days. He lived again only to die again. He now sleeps, for much longer than that four days
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Sept 22, 2006 2:45:23 GMT 10
"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." (Daniel 12:2).
Jesus said: "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth." (John 5:28,29).
All those who died therefore remain in the grave.
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Sept 22, 2006 2:56:30 GMT 10
Lazarus Had No Afterlife Experience
Lazarus' experience is also significant because he spent four days in the grave. This was not a near-death experience, but a real death experience. If, as popularly believed, the soul at death leaves the body and goes to heaven, then Lazarus would have had an amazing experience to share about the four days he would have spent in paradise. The religious leaders and the people would have done all in their power to elicit from Lazarus as much information as possible about the unseen world.
As Robertson Nichol puts it, "Had he [Lazarus] learned anything of the spirit world, it must have oozed out." Such information would have provided valuable answers to the question of life after death which was so hotly debated among the Sadducees and Pharisees (Matt 22:23, 28; Mark 12:18, 23; Luke 20:27, 33).
But Lazarus had nothing to share about life after death, because during the four days he spent in the tomb he slept the unconscious sleep of death. What is true of Lazarus is also true of six other persons who were raised from the dead: The widow's son (1 Kings 17:17-24); the Shunammite's son (2 Kings 4:18-37); the widow's son at Nain (Luke 7:11-15); the daughter of Jairus (Luke 8:41, 42, 49-56); Tabitha (Acts 9:36-41); and Eutychus (Acts 20:9-12). Each of these persons came out of death as if it were out of a profound sleep, with the same feeling and individuality, but with no afterlife experience to share.
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Sept 22, 2006 3:00:35 GMT 10
The traditional and popular belief that death is not the cessation of life for the whole person, but the separation of the immortal soul from the mortal body can be traced back to Satan's lie, "You shall not die" (Gen 3:4)
www.heavendwellers.com/
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Post by Always on Sept 23, 2006 21:45:20 GMT 10
Lazarus Had No Afterlife Experience Could it be that judgment day hasn't arrived yet. Let me ask you one thing though; "What is the earliest memory you can remember about your childhood?".
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Sept 26, 2006 16:34:02 GMT 10
Not all could be remembered by your consciousness but death sleep tells us about not remembering.
All those who died therefore remain in the grave and remember nothing .
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Post by linsi on Sept 26, 2006 16:38:41 GMT 10
The traditional and popular belief that death is not the cessation of life for the whole person, but the separation of the immortal soul from the mortal body can be traced back to Satan's lie, "You shall not die" (Gen 3:4)
www.heavendwellers.com/
If that is a lie where would be the soul suppose to be? the body who died stays in the ground, yet you did not mention about the soul.You mean to say the soul stays with the dead body in the ground? shed us some more light about this.
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Sept 26, 2006 22:17:11 GMT 10
The traditional and popular belief that death is not the cessation of life for the whole person, but the separation of the immortal soul from the mortal body can be traced back to Satan's lie, "You shall not die" (Gen 3:4)
www.heavendwellers.com/
If that is a lie where would be the soul suppose to be? the body who died stays in the ground, yet you did not mention about the soul.You mean to say the soul stays with the dead body in the ground? shed us some more light about this.
Souls of lives are not spirits, but themselves, and every soul will die.(Gen.2:7; Ezek.18:4, KJV)
The soul goes to "sleep" at the time of death, and stays in this quiescent state until the last judgment.
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Post by Always on Sept 27, 2006 0:37:12 GMT 10
Not all could be remembered by your consciousness but death sleep tells us about not remembering.
Does it mean that you do not have any recollection of your childhood? Can I call that alive sleep co'z you can not tell us about your earliest childhood for not remembering?
All those who died therefore remain in the grave and remember nothing .
Yes, they remain in the grave and remember nothing BUT NOT UNTIL the Judgment Day, which is also in accord with your next post.
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Post by Always on Sept 27, 2006 0:44:27 GMT 10
Lazarus Had No Afterlife Experience Could it be that judgment day hasn't arrived yet. Let me ask you one thing though; "What is the earliest memory you can remember about your childhood?".
The soul goes to "sleep" at the time of death, and stays in this quiescent state until the last judgment.
Just as I assumed first hand: Lazarus had no afterlife co'z judgment day is not here yet--still waiting perhaps
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Oct 2, 2006 18:38:02 GMT 10
always
What is your death theory? I just stated mine.
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Post by Always on Oct 2, 2006 18:43:38 GMT 10
Are you not reading mine? Didn't I just say: "Just as I assumed first hand: Lazarus had no afterlife co'z judgment day is not here yet--still waiting perhaps "
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Post by linsi on Oct 2, 2006 18:47:16 GMT 10
hi brnd
there are many biblical views of death, but i wanted to first post about scientific findings related to death in NDE near death experience, wherein souls depart from the physcial body upon clinical death which proves that soul goes to places on a different dimensions.
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Post by linsi on Oct 2, 2006 18:54:00 GMT 10
The soul goes to "sleep" at the time of death, and stays in this quiescent state until the last judgment.
To say that the soul goes to sleep at the time of death contradicts what medical experts found out upon interviewing patients with NDE, and i can attest to one of the many authors with his book-
Life after life by Dr. Moody ( will check correct name later)
they learned that souls upon clinical death goes out of the physical body upon dying therefore souls can be said to be immortals, they donot 'sleep or die with the physical body.
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Post by linsi on Oct 2, 2006 18:58:05 GMT 10
It may be true that Lazarus and some of the bible characters you mentioned, did not have any account written of afterlife experiences, the bible tells why. Have you read about the Abraham and the rich man?
You will find it there, (and some other sources) why these people has not given any account of an afterlife testimony,
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Post by linsi on Oct 2, 2006 19:01:13 GMT 10
soul is referred to something immortal as it was interchangeably used in the bible with the word spirit, i donot have much time now, but i will post about it one day, dichotomists believe in body and soul, trichotomists believe in body, soul and spirit which does not affect the major doctrines of christianity itself, i am afraid i could not agree with your philosophy
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Oct 2, 2006 21:58:14 GMT 10
The soul goes to "sleep" at the time of death, and stays in this quiescent state until the last judgment.
To say that the soul goes to sleep at the time of death contradicts what medical experts found out upon interviewing patients with NDE, and i can attest to one of the many authors with his book-
Life after life by Dr. Moody ( will check correct name later)
they learned that souls upon clinical death goes out of the physical body upon dying therefore souls can be said to be immortals, they donot 'sleep or die with the physical body.
I am talking about real death here and not a near death experience.
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Post by Always on Oct 3, 2006 1:19:07 GMT 10
How about flatliners?
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Post by linsi on Oct 5, 2006 18:38:24 GMT 10
Near death experience is considered clinical death or clinically dead. Those who were revived pass through clinical death back to life, those who were not succumbed to permanent death.
In Lazaruz time, should it be possible if he was clinically dead?
Ariel Sharon of Israel has been on a state of comma for months and medical advancements keep him alive. if it were not so, he would be prunounced dead months earlier.
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Oct 7, 2006 20:48:06 GMT 10
Near death experience is considered clinical death or clinically dead. Those who were revived pass through clinical death back to life, those who were not succumbed to permanent death.
In Lazaruz time, should it be possible if he was clinically dead?
Ariel Sharon of Israel has been on a state of comma for months and medical advancements keep him alive. if it were not so, he would be prunounced dead months earlier.
If i may post it again. i am talking about actual death, permanent death not near death experience. Supporting this are experts from biblical studies.
But Lazarus had nothing to share about life after death, because during the four days he spent in the tomb he slept the unconscious sleep of death. What is true of Lazarus is also true of six other persons who were raised from the dead: The widow's son (1 Kings 17:17-24); the Shunammite's son (2 Kings 4:18-37); the widow's son at Nain (Luke 7:11-15); the daughter of Jairus (Luke 8:41, 42, 49-56); Tabitha (Acts 9:36-41); and Eutychus (Acts 20:9-12). Each of these persons came out of death as if it were out of a profound sleep, with the same feeling and individuality, but with no afterlife experience to share.
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Post by linsi on Oct 7, 2006 21:28:12 GMT 10
Luke chapter 16:19 and onwards..
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Oct 9, 2006 17:44:50 GMT 10
Linsi, your responses are wanting. It would be better if these dead back to life gave an account of their experiences of after life.
In the bible, everything is revealed as what other christians said.
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Post by Always on Oct 10, 2006 0:15:45 GMT 10
Again
How about flatliners?
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Oct 23, 2006 20:17:57 GMT 10
Anyone who is a doctor of medicine here?
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Jan 8, 2007 17:32:13 GMT 10
Anyone?
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Post by Always on Jan 8, 2007 21:26:08 GMT 10
Since no one amongst us is a real doctor perhaps you can ask me for the sake of argument
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Post by delta on Jan 25, 2007 13:34:30 GMT 10
Matagal na ang tanong baka naman pwedeng tanungin na ito?
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brnd
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Post by brnd on Mar 20, 2007 14:14:56 GMT 10
Since no one amongst us is a real doctor perhaps you can ask me for the sake of argument
Then what is "flatliners?"
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Post by Always on May 10, 2008 1:13:08 GMT 10
Flatliners simply mean people who are clinically dead
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