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Post by linsi on Jun 2, 2006 2:00:48 GMT 10
From Kuya Banshik
I disagree on your interpretation of divine filiation. Please review what filiation in the context of faith means. Example of Natural/Physical Filiation = God the Father and God the Son. Example of divine filiation = God the Father and Man. It is not mere terminology of "affiliation or membership" but adescription on the nature of relationship between man and God.
Divine Filiation is not conditional. God applied His "adoption" of man to the whole of mankind. It means whether is a believer/non-beliver, born-again/not born again - all men are sons God.
Jesus Christ died for all mankind and did not set any condition that His death was conditional to those only born again.
Being "born again" in John 3.3 is not divine filiation. It is an explanation for the condition of man's salvation. It is an explanation the need of man to obtain grace in order for the soul which is dead to be born again.
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Post by linsi on Jun 2, 2006 2:20:42 GMT 10
quote from kuya banshik
Divine Filiation is not conditional. God applied His "adoption"of man to the whole of mankind. It means whether is a believer/non-beliver, born-again/not born again - all men are sons God.
WRONG not all men are sons of God by christian doctrines. divine filiation is conditional not unconditional
Faith interests us in the privilege of adoption. 'Ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus' (Gal. 3:26).
Before faith is wrought, we are spiritually illegitimate, we have no relation to God as a father.
An unbeliever may call God judge, but not father.
Faith is the affiliating grace; it confers upon us the title of sonship, and gives us right to inherit.
'The just shall live by faith' (Hab. 2:4).
Life makes us capable of adoption, dead children are never adopted.It makes us Christ's brethren, and so God comes to be our Father.
(the dead in spirit, as jesus said let the dead bury their dead in Luke 9-)
Luke 9: 59-60 He said to another, "Follow me!" But he said, "Lord, allow me first to go and bury my father."
But Jesus said to him, "Leave the dead to bury their own dead, but you go and announce the Kingdom of God."
this means spiritually dead (not in christ as the unbelievers are.)
by christian definition therefore, not all men are sons of God
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Post by linsi on Jun 2, 2006 2:32:16 GMT 10
From kuya banshik
It is not mere terminology of "affiliation or membership" but adescription on the nature of relationship between man and God.
Before faith is wrought, we are spiritually illegitimate, we have no relation to God as a father.
Immediately after the fall of adam and eve, the relationship between God and man was severed,
that sin severed the relationship between God and man in the Garden of Eden
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Post by linsi on Jun 2, 2006 2:41:42 GMT 10
From kuya banshik
Jesus Christ died for all mankind and did not set any condition that His death was conditional to those only born again
No, Christ has set conditions.
There is a necessary order in a man's Salvation; he must first believe that Christ died for him before he can appropriate the benefits of his death to himself.
Although Christ died for all in the sense of reconciling God to the world, not all are saved, because their actual Salvation is conditioned on their being reconciled to God
(2 Corinthians 5:18-20).
We conclude that the atonement is unlimited in the sense that it is available for all; it is limited in that it is effective only for those who believe.
It is available for all, but efficient only for the elect ( those who chose to believe on what Christ has done on the cross, by faith, and by being born in spirit and water, by being renewed in Christ)
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Post by linsi on Jun 2, 2006 2:46:15 GMT 10
Being "born again" in John 3.3 is not divine filiation.
It is an explanation for the condition of man's salvation. It is an explanation the need of man to obtain grace in order for the soul which is dead to be born again.
Being born again means to be born in the spirit and water. it means to be renewed in Christ, which sets the record for adoption in the family of God, and sharing in God's glory hereafter as a family.
that is the meaning of John 3:3
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Post by linsi on Jun 2, 2006 4:27:37 GMT 10
A further explanation of John 3:3 and i just require bible verses be consulted.
1 Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 2 He came to Jesus at night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you are doing unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born 3 from above." 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?" 5 Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. 6 What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I told you, 'You must be born from above.' 8 The wind 4 blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." 9 Nicodemus answered and said to him, "How can this happen?" 10 Jesus answered and said to him,You are the teacher of Israel and you do not understand this? 11 Amen, amen, I say to you, we speak of what we know and we testify to what we have seen, but you people do not accept our testimony. 12 If I tell you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13 No one has gone up to heaven except the one who has come down from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up 5 the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 6 so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life." 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn 8 the world, but that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
bottomline:
Jesus discusses one of the fundamental doctrines of the christian faith-regeneration or spiritual birth titus 3:5
There was the regeneration of the diciples
Through this process eternal life from God himself is imparted to the believer's heart (regeneration-being born anew)
and he or she becomes a child of God John 1;12/ Romans 8:16-17/Galatians 3:26 unbelievers could never be adopted sons and daughters of God by christian definition. to be adopted one must believe in Christ and what he has done on the cross,
one must obey his commandment to be born in water and spirit (born again)so that there will be a renewed creation in Christ the adopted son and daughter now is a new creation in Christ
unbelievers become the sons and daughters of the devil in which God could never adopt, they rejected the fellowship with Christ, mocking him, and following what is contradicted in the sciptures..
these unbelievers become now the enemies of God .
Not all are called the sons and daughters of God by christian definition.
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Post by linsi on Jun 2, 2006 13:37:15 GMT 10
Not all are called the sons and daughters of God by christian definition.
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Post by empire on Jul 30, 2006 18:26:33 GMT 10
Hello! every one... thanks God ang haba na pala ng aabot ng mga threads.Tagal ko kasing nawala,I was busy for the last few months sorry po mga kapatid di kaya parang napabayaan ko na yong part ko as a believers dito sa forum.Beside kagagaling ko lang ng China for a business purposes. Anyway I'm back at makakasama nyo na ako sa forum but not most of the times marami kasing responsibilities na nakapatong sa balikat ko sa ngayon coz we're just started this new company. hi sis linsi, kumusta na Ate hotty, kapatid na ruth, kuya banzhik regards to all.
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Post by Always on Aug 5, 2006 12:15:05 GMT 10
Hindi lahat ng tao ay anak ng Diyos
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Post by hottyfecehh on Aug 6, 2006 12:18:26 GMT 10
Hello! every one... thanks God ang haba na pala ng aabot ng mga threads.Tagal ko kasing nawala,I was busy for the last few months sorry po mga kapatid di kaya parang napabayaan ko na yong part ko as a believers dito sa forum.Beside kagagaling ko lang ng China for a business purposes. Anyway I'm back at makakasama nyo na ako sa forum but not most of the times marami kasing responsibilities na nakapatong sa balikat ko sa ngayon coz we're just started this new company. hi sis linsi, kumusta na Ate hotty, kapatid na ruth, kuya banzhik regards to all. hi sir empire..... welcome back...
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Post by violet on Aug 6, 2006 14:52:37 GMT 10
haaaay nahinto na ang mga discusisons at ang mga teachers ay hindi na nag post.
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Post by risker on Aug 11, 2006 10:24:48 GMT 10
Hindi lahat ng tao ay anak ng Diyos
yes we are...
we are only separated by our different axioms/beliefs... we only have one Creator and he who turns himself back from Him will be forgotten and will be separated from God...
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Post by Always on Aug 11, 2006 11:39:42 GMT 10
Hindi lahat ng tao ay anak ng Diyos
yes we are...
we are only separated by our different axioms/beliefs... we only have one Creator and he who turns himself back from Him will be forgotten and will be separated from God... Perhaps so, but if we have to outline the population growth during the days of Adam and Eve, we would be able to perceive that not all are the sons of God
The question now is: "How did mankind multiply from Adam and E ve?"
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migy
Moderator
moderator in his designated rooms
Posts: 2,544
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Post by migy on Aug 12, 2006 23:19:47 GMT 10
That is why God gave His Son in John 3:16 and whoever believes in Him and receive His as His Lord and Savior should not perish but have everlasting life... By then He is entitled to be called Children of God; John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, Have a Blessed Day!
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Post by rafael on Aug 14, 2006 4:00:21 GMT 10
Perhaps so, but if we have to outline the population growth during the days of Adam and Eve, we would be able to perceive that not all are the sons of God
The question now is: "How did mankind multiply from Adam and E ve?"
Adam lived up to 900 years, people at that time lived very long to multiply and fill up the earth.Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it.”—Gen. 1:28. Adam and Eve must multiply to fulfill what was commanded. At 80 years old, males can reproduce many offsprings, Adam at 900 years old life span can produce a village, his offsprings with the same life span can produce just the same.
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Post by Always on Sept 26, 2006 9:49:26 GMT 10
Perhaps so, but if we have to outline the population growth during the days of Adam and Eve, we would be able to perceive that not all are the sons of God
The question now is: "How did mankind multiply from Adam and E ve?"
Adam lived up to 900 years, people at that time lived very long to multiply and fill up the earth.Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it.”—Gen. 1:28. Adam and Eve must multiply to fulfill what was commanded. At 80 years old, males can reproduce many offsprings, Adam at 900 years old life span can produce a village, his offsprings with the same life span can produce just the same.
Pero saan sa Bilbliya galing ang ibang mga babae? Pwede ba ang kapatid sa kapatid o anak sa ina o sa ama? Maari kayang may iba ng mga nilalalang sa labas ng Garden? Ang Itsura ba nila Adam at Eba noon ay tulad natin o para silang mga kuba?
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Post by rafael on Sept 27, 2006 5:20:38 GMT 10
If we could agree to consider the bible as our source, then there is no way to reproduce but reproductions between Adam and Eve's offsprings. Logically speaking, long life span could enable them to produce villages .
If there is truth that God created only good things, Adam and Eve must look very good without image distortions.
Are you implying a Pre-adamic nature?
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Post by Always on Sept 27, 2006 10:11:24 GMT 10
Then consider the Bible as the source; but even though it is not written on it explicitly, somehow there could be a logical explanation how. The garden itself icould be the biggest hint to all of these things
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Post by rafael on Oct 3, 2006 3:48:14 GMT 10
You did not answer my Pre-adamic querry.
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Post by Always on Oct 3, 2006 11:32:29 GMT 10
You did not answer my Pre-adamic querry.
Because the Pre-adamic age refers to none other than the ones who were created first Who were these creation who had forbidden relations with mankind and produced a race of Nephilims as in Hebrew word for the fallen ones
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Post by rafael on Oct 4, 2006 3:33:13 GMT 10
So you believed in a Pre-adamic nature? Where giants once roam the earth?
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Post by Always on Oct 4, 2006 7:47:14 GMT 10
So you believed in a Pre-adamic nature? Where giants once roam the earth?
Did I not impose on that? How about you, do you believe in Pre-Adamic Age just before Adam and Eve?
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Post by rafael on Oct 5, 2006 2:43:44 GMT 10
If the "bible" says that the first man is Adam then the Pre-adamic entities are a hoax. If the bible says there are giants before Adam then the bible does not speak of the truth in this particular case. Can you blame the skeptics?
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Post by Always on Oct 6, 2006 7:07:01 GMT 10
Again, do you believe in Pre-Adamic age?
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Post by rafael on Oct 10, 2006 2:54:23 GMT 10
Pero saan sa Bilbliya galing ang ibang mga babae? Pwede ba ang kapatid sa kapatid o anak sa ina o sa ama? Maari kayang may iba ng mga nilalalang sa labas ng Garden? Ang Itsura ba nila Adam at Eba noon ay tulad natin o para silang mga kuba?
You gave the implications of other creatures aside from what is written about the creation of Adam and Eve and their clan.
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Post by rafael on Oct 10, 2006 2:56:15 GMT 10
Again, do you believe in Pre-Adamic age? I could believe and not believe in anything i choose to be affirmative or negative.
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Post by Always on Oct 10, 2006 12:12:03 GMT 10
Again, do you believe in Pre-Adamic age? I could believe and not believe in anything i choose to be affirmative or negative.
Still, you did not answer the question Again, again, again, do you believe in Pre-Adamic Age?
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Post by Always on Oct 10, 2006 12:14:54 GMT 10
Pero saan sa Bilbliya galing ang ibang mga babae? Pwede ba ang kapatid sa kapatid o anak sa ina o sa ama? Maari kayang may iba ng mga nilalalang sa labas ng Garden? Ang Itsura ba nila Adam at Eba noon ay tulad natin o para silang mga kuba?
You gave the implications of other creatures aside from what is written about the creation of Adam and Eve and their clan.
The creation scenario is as is by itself. My implication is about the fallen ones and the Nephilims
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Post by rafael on Oct 11, 2006 3:50:40 GMT 10
I am not decided wether i could believe in nephilim. Similar to the notions of aliens living outisde planet earth confuses me.
My answer speaks of my search about Theism, not about the existence of God but about who this God is and why do mankind believe in him.
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Post by Always on Oct 11, 2006 4:46:22 GMT 10
That is good to know about your searching Sometimes it is very difficult to know God; it is not only by reading the Holy Bible, but by learning outside of it. I believe in aliens living outside our Milky Way and it does not deter the fact that I am a theist (though other Christian may think otherwise.) The fact is, truth is not entirely synonymous to honesty because when a person reads the Bible, it may occur to him that it is not entirely honest to him and become doubtful; but by learning into it, the truth of its normalcy arises
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