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Post by linsi on Apr 30, 2006 1:00:45 GMT 10
I quote ruth: linsi, nabanggit mo na ibang isyu pa ang salvation...actually napagusapan na ito sa ibang forums dati ..pero masarap uli pagusapan.. if someone live their lives for their fellowmen..without knowing Christ or without being Christians..dahil sa dikta lang ng conscience do they have the chance to be saved? naniniwala ako na may awa ng Dyos, na binbigyan Nya ang lahat ng equal opportunity ma-save..Christian man o pagan.. and He does this through the works of the Holy Spirit.. tama ba?
Ok mga ka P7 eto na po ang bottom line share your ideas.. wait lang ruth ah.. mahirap ang topics..
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Post by linsi on Apr 30, 2006 1:04:22 GMT 10
ruth
antayin natin sila kuya banshik, midnight, migy, sir empire, hotty, supremo, Joshua, sarah lahat na and let us know their idea
pag ako ang tatanungin mo ?
hehe God is JUST
at kung siya ay makatwiran ay hindi niya papayagang mapunta sa impiyerno ang mga taong hindi nagkarun ng chances na makilala siya by geography, by culture or anything...
will He send people to hell without a fair chance? I think NO, HE IS A FAIR GOD, A JUST GOD A MERCIFULGOD
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Post by migy on May 3, 2006 0:27:34 GMT 10
Sige share ako; Salvation is by grace alone through faith in Christ alone apart from works; justification is that act of God in which the imputed righteousness of Christ is credited to our account; all our hopes for heaven rest solely on the divinity of His person and the sufficiency and finality of His work of atonement. The Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit to apply to us what Christ accomplished according to the plan of the Father; our only hope for heaven is based on the fact that we are chosen by the Father, purchased by the Son, and sealed by the Spirit, blessed God Three in One! Father sent the Son to redeem a lost and erring mankind; Jesus of Nazareth actually existed in history and that He was the Christ, i. e. the long awaited Jewish Messiah; He is the eternal pre-existent Word of God; He is God of very God as well as man of very man, two natures but one person; He willingly died on the cross for our sins; He arose bodily on the third day for our justification; He ascended into heaven for our sanctification; and He is now at the right hand of the Father to intercede on our behalf.
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Post by sarah on May 5, 2006 13:36:13 GMT 10
Eto naman po ang i-share ko. Senya na po mahaba. Salvation is not just a negative deliverance from sin (original sin and actual sin) and its effects: God saves us not just from something, but for something. God’s action is a positive liberation that raises human beings to a supernatural status, to eternal life on a higher plane than earthly life, to union in a single body with Christ, one of the three Persons of the Trinity, to the dignity of not only being called but actually being adopted children of God, to seeing God "as he is" (1 John 3:2) in communion of life and love with the Trinity and all the saints. These blessings man could never merit. Indeed, in the strict sense, man can never merit anything from God: the creature has received everything, including abilities and potentialities, from the Creator. The possibility of meriting anything in the eyes of God derives entirely from a free gift or grace of God. Salvation or justification can by no means be merited, but once God has justified us, we can then, through the influence of the Holy Spirit and love, merit graces useful for sanctification, for growth in grace and love and for reaching the eternal life for which God destines us. We can merit even material benefits, such as health and friendship. Christians receive even in this life, as it were in incipient or seed form, a pledge and a hope of what is to come, the blessings of salvation that are to be given fully and definitively in the afterlife. Salvation we can use both past,present and future tenses. -Our salvation has already been achieved in principle and in hope, since Christ died for all on the cross and since we accepted Christ by faith and baptism: "When the kindness of God our Saviour, and his love towards man, appeared, not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which he poured out upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:4-7). - The process of salvation continues in God's work in those who accept the Gospel. St Paul uses the present tense in this regard: "To us who are being saved, (the word of the cross) is the power of God" (1 Corinthians 1:18). - Only on completion of our earthly life will God's saving work in us reach its final stage. There is no magic formula or emotional experience that will definitively prevent us, as creatures whom God has endowed with free will, from ever rejecting God’s offer of salvation. Even the great Apostle Paul envisaged this eventuality for himself, considering it possible that he himself, after having preached to others, might be rejected (1 Corinthians 9:27). But there is hope: "Since, therefore, we are now justified by (Christ's) blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God" (Romans 5:9).
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 5, 2006 18:41:37 GMT 10
Hi Guys,
We have discussed our doctrinal differences at length.
Only one simple question.
If one is already saved by believing in Jesus Christ, why then is it still necessary to to good works?
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Post by theservant on May 6, 2006 17:47:00 GMT 10
for me it will manifest when we are truly following the works of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Gifts of manifestations believing Jesus Christ follows, one of God given gifts if commonly known as "control" by accepting the Lord Jesus Christ, yung ugali kong pala-"MURA" nawala na po, from bad mouth to controlled and good mouth, sorry po kung malabo, example ko lang po ke Bmazhik101, gandang araw po sa inyo.
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 20:01:13 GMT 10
pag daw APOCALYPSE na lahat daw ng tao, including yung mga namatay at naging alikabok...magiging tao ulit...laman (Flesh) ulit...at manunumbalik daw ang earth sa dati nitong state (garden of Eden)...and lahat ng ligtas magkikita kita sa baong earth na yun.
anong ibig sabihin nila ng magiging tao ulet? manunumbalik sa earth sa dating state? so therefore pag sinabing dating state, dating corruptible state and that is wrong, all those who were in christ at nakarating sa glory their bodies will be glorified like what happened to christ, it will be changed into a glorious one..
after death apostle paul stated about the glory of heaven
at ang sinasabing apocalypse ng mga JW ay iba ang kanilang interpretations dhail ang kanilang sinusunod ay watch tower.
NO, not the corrupt state linsi. They consider GARDEN of EDEN (before the fall) as dating state ng earth. Naniniwala sila na maununumbalik ang earth as GARDEN of EDEN. Kaya lahat ng literatures nila linsi may mga images ng Garden of EDEN and MEN, WOMEN wearing their proper clothes...living in peace & harmony with all other creations. They believe that Heaven is on earth. Kaya lang na-corrupt and after paghuhukom daw babalik ito sa dati. And humans will live on Garden of Eden as flesh and blood pa rin NOT SPIRITS. kasi daw God lang ang may SPIRIT. God lang ang nageexist as SPIRIT.
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 20:13:40 GMT 10
sarah,
clap! clap! clap! galing ng contribution mo..
bakit nga ba past, present at future tense and process ng Salvation?
let us deal with the past muna...bakit saved by the BLOOD OF JESUS?
do you remember when God was angered in Genesis because of the wickedness of MAN...he grieved and therefore nagkaron ng Great Flood?
but God still saved mankind thru Noah...and then nangako sya na never again will He send a flood to destroy His creation...
nung pinadala nya ang only begotten Son nya...He also saved us from our own corruption our own selfish self centered and sinful nature by the blood of Jesus, we are already saved.
since He knows that while we are still on earth, laging anjan si Satan to lure us, and of course because of our own flesh (sinful nature)...we will not be able to completely be followers of God or obedient to Him....He is a God of second chances....so the process of Salvation is an ongoing process...He will continue to put us back in time make us realize our dependency on God
And then of course the APOCALYPSE...God will put an end on the battle between good and evil...and He will offer the gift of salvation to us when that time comes...
ayan po ang pagkaalam ko...i will post here again pagkatapos ko basahin ang Revelations...i cannot claim that i will be able to fully understand this...but i will try okie?
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 20:23:39 GMT 10
ito po ang ilan sa mga nabasa ko sa Revelations yung first few chapters..
this book unlike any other books in the Bible was authored by Jesus himself...thru John the Apostle.
Jesus asked John to write what happened in the past, what happens now and what will happen.
Ang hirap nga lang maintindihan dahil puro symbolisms.
Yung first few chapters...nabanggit dun yung 7 categories ng churches .all churches in the past and in the present will fall into one of these categories.
It was predicted also that when the END of TIMES is near...magra-rapture ang mga churches...that means mawawalan na ito ng power over humanity. But there will be invidiuals who will overcome and will hold fast to their faith.
Then Jesus will come again and rule for 1,000 years and at this time (dahil sa covenant nya with Abraham)....there will be complete peace on earth.
May nabanggit din na Israel will take center stage during this millenial reign of Jesus. At that time Christians would say "JESUS, WELCOME BACK", while the Jews of Israel would say "WELCOME" lang.
Kasi the Jews of Israel, does not believe that Jesus is their MESSIAH, when He came to earth.
This is why we say even if Israel refused to believe in Jesus, they are under GRACE (undeserved favor). May covenant kasi si God kay Abraham and God always fulfille His promiess even if ISrael dont.
yan muna po..itutuloy about the APOCALYPSE
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 20:42:48 GMT 10
gusto ko rin sana idiscuss dito yung process of conversion ni Paul and discuss why even though we are raised by Christian parents...we need to pass from death to LIFE..
this process of passing from DEATH to LIFE...is a pattern set in the Old Testament...and was the focus of the NT, when Jesus died and lived again.
Paul was a learned Christian, when he persecuted a lot of other Christians...then he passed from DEATH (that means spiritual death) to LIFE...
when we say spiritual death..yun yung sobrang dami nya pinapatay na Christians...then because of God's mercy...pinarusahan sya (binulag) in order for him to realize he is a sinner...that he is spiritually dead...and must come back to LIFE...
Paul is lucky in the sense na very dramatic yung process of conversion nya...the process of passing from death to life (essentially God saved Paul from self destruction)...kasi tragic yung naging drama ng buhay nya...napakalaki ng kasalanan nya (MURDER)...napakadaling isipin na sya ay isang sinner.
But for most of us , who are morally upright/legally correct...napakahirap tanggapin na we are sinners (maliit o malaki ang kasalanan...sinner pa rin). mas mahirap tulungan ang taong di alam kung ano ang sakit nya...and why he needs to be saved.
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 20:47:23 GMT 10
please be reminded that during Paul's conversion, tapos na yung pagpako sa krus kay Jesus and Jesus already ascended into Heaven. so at that time, Paul's sins are already washed by the sacrifice of the Lamb.
at the time that Paul was 'spiritualy dead", the process of salvation is being worked on by God na...unti unti tinanggal lahat ng defense ni Paul (pati paningin nya) hanggang sa wala na syang iba pang pwedeng panghawakan.
and thats the time when He accepted Jesus as his Savior.
an excerpt: Have you reached that place which Jesus described as "blessed"? "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." To be "poor in spirit" is to be utterly bankrupt before some demand of life, and then discover it to be a blessing because it forced you to depend wholly upon the Lord at work in you. That is where you learn the truth of the new covenant, and nowhere else. We have much to learn yet about why it works, but you can only find out how it works when you discover it in your own experience
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 20:49:36 GMT 10
at this time..when Paul was preaching...minsan may mga nababanggit na sya about the second coming of jesus christ (millenial reign)...di ko lang matandaan ang verses...
so ayan po...why saved, being saved and will be saved...
napakabait ng Dyos ano? we will be saved, we are being saved and we will be saved...
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 20:52:56 GMT 10
Hi Guys, We have discussed our doctrinal differences at length. Only one simple question. If one is already saved by believing in Jesus Christ, why then is it still necessary to to good works? kuya Banshik, good works is FRUIT of the Holy Spirit. we do good works after being saved as a fruit of being in the Spirit. it is a work in progress. for a new Christian, sanctification does not happen overnight. when one does good works for the sake of doing it. it is useless, baseless and does not have anything to do with faith. hindi nga ba may nagsabi na tell me about your good works and i will tell you what my faith can do..
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 21:10:04 GMT 10
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:13).
so even the Devil can disguise himself behind good works. remeber that the Devil himself was created by God. and so he knows how to give good gifts with bad motives.
aside from that our flesh, will also long to do good.
so unless good works is fueled by faith...it is useless, baseles..
we do good works as believers, in order that non-believers will be able to receive the grace of God through us..
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 21:35:21 GMT 10
so how then will we be able to know if the good works is based on the will of the flesh or by the spirit?
if good works is nothing but a desire to fulfill the 'letter which kills' (that means THE LAW as in the TEN COMMANDEMENTS)...then it is not of the spirit.
'the letter kills, the Spirit gives LIFE...
we must be dead (thru the letter that kills) and be born again...LIVE again...
then thru sanctification (very long process..kaya being saved)...we will gain the
fruits of the Holy Spirit ====love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control ==== these are signs of LIFE ...which means LIFE while you are still on earth...
and the manifestations of a LIFE is thru good works...not the other way around.
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 21:49:33 GMT 10
Well, sometimes we hear a person say, "Man, I'm really living!" What does that person mean? That he or she is experiencing great enjoyment, of course! Enjoyment is a part of life, as God intended it to be. Purpose, meaning, worth, fulfillment, these are all part of life. How about other qualities--joy, peace, love, friendship, power? Yes, that's what life is. The moment we have these qualities, we are living. Surely, this is what Jesus meant when He said, "I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full" (John 10:10). That is Life with a capital L. Life lived to the full--full of love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control--man, that's living!
In contrast then, what is death? It is the absence or opposite of those qualities of life. What is the absence of love? Hate, selfishness, and fear. What is the absence of joy? Misery, weariness of spirit, anger, hopelessness. Thus frustration, boredom, worry, hostility, jealousy, malice, loneliness, depression, self-pity--these are all marks of the absence of life. In short, they are forms of death.
We do not need to wait till we die to experience these. For all too many of us, they are a major part of our experience while we yet live. They represent death in the midst of life.
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Post by linsi on Jun 21, 2006 22:02:32 GMT 10
ruth
d2 na nga lang at baka masita tayo ni hotty dahil off topic wahehehe
interesado ako dun sa theory ng mga JW sarap banggain
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 22:11:51 GMT 10
ruth
d2 na nga lang at baka masita tayo ni hotty dahil off topic wahehehe
interesado ako dun sa theory ng mga JW sarap banggain oo nga...masarap nga pagusapan yun and to rebuke it...pero linsi...kelangan ko pa magaral hehehe...saka ko na balikan yun...
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 22:13:50 GMT 10
may tanong ako sayo linsi...
if a person refuses to be saved (from being spiritually dead but physically alive)...will he/she still have a chance to saved pagdating ng APOCALYPSE?
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Post by linsi on Jun 21, 2006 22:32:27 GMT 10
may tanong ako sayo linsi... if a person refuses to be saved (from being spiritually dead but physically alive)...will he/she still have a chance to saved pagdating ng APOCALYPSE?
personally, i would answer yes.
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 22:51:02 GMT 10
if that is so, anong magiging reward ng spiritually alive during the APOCALYPSE?
will he be automatically be saved? remembers meron book (scroll) na bubuksan si Lord (na sabi ng John ay wala daw makapagbubukas kung di si Jesus lang)...
and that book will answer all the mysteries na hindi natin mabigyan ng kasagutan?
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Post by ruth on Jun 21, 2006 22:54:18 GMT 10
is it true that being spiritually alive here on earth, is a glimpse of how it is like when we are in eternity? (glimpse lang...patikim lang...so that means...there are more to it)
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Post by supremo on Jun 22, 2006 8:11:16 GMT 10
I quote ruth: linsi, nabanggit mo na ibang isyu pa ang salvation...actually napagusapan na ito sa ibang forums dati ..pero masarap uli pagusapan.. if someone live their lives for their fellowmen..without knowing Christ or without being Christians..dahil sa dikta lang ng conscience do they have the chance to be saved? naniniwala ako na may awa ng Dyos, na binbigyan Nya ang lahat ng equal opportunity ma-save..Christian man o pagan.. and He does this through the works of the Holy Spirit.. tama ba?
Ok mga ka P7 eto na po ang bottom line share your ideas.. wait lang ruth ah.. mahirap ang topics.. For the past two thousand years since our saviour acsended unto heaven, early christian have awaited for our saviour to return. There are records in the bible pertaining to existing of anti-christ (major sign of his emminent return) at their time suggesting they are really longing for his return yet our saviour have never return. Time past, many christian where bought to martyrdom, suffered, brutally executed and the blood of their voice is crying out from the ground asking the Lord for vengeance pero di pa rin siya dumarating. I know heartily every chrsitian here knows why. He's giving opportunity to everyone, pagans, non-believers etc for a chance to know Him as we know Him. Pertaining to "someone who live their lives for thier fellowmen", remember Cornelius (acts 10:1-3), a just and devout man? The Lord use someone (Peter) to win him over to Christ. I believe God will make a way for these people to know Him, sa kahit na anong pamamaraan, He will try to reach them. Now the question is how about those people who have live their lives responsibly and died w/o knowing and accept Him as ther saviour?? Or those people who have already died prior to our Lord's birth?? Those people exist w/o any doubt. Paano kaya sile i-deal ng Panginoon?? Please share your insights....
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Post by ruth on Jun 22, 2006 22:20:13 GMT 10
supremo:
He's giving opportunity to everyone, pagans, non-believers etc for a chance to know Him as we know Him.
ruth:
parang nabasa ko sa Revelations that there would be 7 years of peace...before the end of days...that means everyone, pagans, believers and non believers alike will be able to know Him...and at that time all prayers ng kanyang creations will be answered...including the prayer, ang kaisa-isang prayer na hindi pa sinasagot ni Jesus,,,kahit kailan, kahit sino pang santo ang magdasal...sasagutin nya ito during that 7 years of PEACE..
" Thy kingdom COME, thy will be DONE on earth as it is in HEAVEN" pero meron ding kasunod iyun na days of tribulation (or great distress)...
medyo malabo lang ang sequence of events...dahil kasi puro symbolisms...aralin ko muna...bago ako sagot ng mahaba haba
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Post by ruth on Jun 22, 2006 22:26:19 GMT 10
supremo:
Now the question is how about those people who have live their lives responsibly and died w/o knowing and accept Him as ther saviour?? Or those people who have already died prior to our Lord's birth?? Those people exist w/o any doubt. Paano kaya sile i-deal ng Panginoon?? Please share your insights....
ruth:
the 12 apostles and the 12 patriarchs of the Old Testament (which Includes Abraham, Isaac and jacob)...are considered Saints...or what is represented by the 24 elders na nasa likod ng throne ni Jesus...sa pagbabalik nya...that means merong kalalagayan sa kaharian ni Jesus ang mga taong ito who died prior to Jesus' birth...
at nabanggit din sa revelations na pag inalow na ni Jesus na magrule ang evil (the one that came from the abyss), He will not allow the trees and the grass (meaning the redeemed ones), to be affected by the great tribulation (great distress) which will happen daw for a period of 5 mths...
so yun po ang reward ng mga nagsumikap na sumunod sa Kanya.
para dun sa mga di sumusunod..at inabutan na ng great tribulation...they will really have to run literally to escape punishment...
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Post by supremo on Jun 23, 2006 2:19:38 GMT 10
supremo: He's giving opportunity to everyone, pagans, non-believers etc for a chance to know Him as we know Him. ruth: parang nabasa ko sa Revelations that there would be 7 years of peace...before the end of days...that means everyone, pagans, believers and non believers alike will be able to know Him...and at that time all prayers ng kanyang creations will be answered...including the prayer, ang kaisa-isang prayer na hindi pa sinasagot ni Jesus,,,kahit kailan, kahit sino pang santo ang magdasal...sasagutin nya ito during that 7 years of PEACE.. " Thy kingdom COME, thy will be DONE on earth as it is in HEAVEN"pero meron ding kasunod iyun na days of tribulation (or great distress)... medyo malabo lang ang sequence of events...dahil kasi puro symbolisms...aralin ko muna...bago ako sagot ng mahaba haba Actually that's not 7 years of peace, but 3.5 years of peace and 3.5 years chaos...total of 7 years.....
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Post by ruth on Jun 23, 2006 17:31:43 GMT 10
thanks for being specific supremo...pero bakit binanggit pa na 7 years (or 42 months)...in fact 3.5 years is considered the first half period and 3.5 years as the second half period...bakit di na lang sinabing 3.5 kung 3.5?
bakit 7 years?
bakit din sinabing seven trumpets will be blown?
ano rin ang relevance ng 7 years na ito sa 1,000 years (millenial reign) ni jesus sa lupa?
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Post by linsi on Jun 23, 2006 17:34:05 GMT 10
From supremo
I believe God will make a way for these people to know Him, sa kahit na anong pamamaraan, He will try to reach them.
agree but let us not forget the free choice God has given to every man and with this free choice the freedom of the will to accept or not, to do good or evil which is absolutely free, but with culpability at the end as God bestows His authority at the end.
Now the question is how about those people who have live their lives responsibly and died w/o knowing and accept Him as ther saviour?? Or those people who have already died prior to our Lord's birth?? Those people exist w/o any doubt. Paano kaya sile i-deal ng Panginoon?? Please share your insights
Before moses, there was the conscience, and after Adam and eve there was death and curses after committing the first sin. during the time of moses, the law was given to intensify man's knowledge of sin, for by the law is the knowledge of sin Romans 3:19,20
Nay, i had not known sin but by the law, for i had not known lust except the law had saith "thou shalt not covet" Romans 7:7
Having learned through the law that sin is breaking God's commandmnet, sin now takes on the character of transgression.
Once Christ came, and was received Savior and Lord through faith, the law as a means of obtaining salvation is done away with.
unbelievers, those who did not, or donot come to Christ for salvation are still being judged by the law.
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Post by ruth on Jun 23, 2006 17:34:23 GMT 10
bakit 144,000 Jews of Israel daw ang mamumuno during that time of peace? bakit 144,000? (may naalala ako abt JW, sabi ng mga founders ng JW, 144,000 members daw ng JW ang binabanggit sa Revelations...nung lumampas ng 144,000 ang members ng JW...sabi nila may second band (144,000 x2= 288,000)daw ang...tapos ngayn me 3rd band (servant band 288,000+144,000= then plus plus ulet??) ahehhe...commercial lang po
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Post by linsi on Jun 23, 2006 17:37:41 GMT 10
Hi Guys, We have discussed our doctrinal differences at length. Only one simple question. If one is already saved by believing in Jesus Christ, why then is it still necessary to to good works?
kc kuya banshik yun ang result ng pagtanggap by faith kay Christ. resulta na lamang po yun. Ang naka kristo dapat may mabubuting gawa dahil yun ang itinuro ni Christ at mismong ang Diyos ay author ng kabutihan.
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