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Post by linsi on Jun 23, 2006 17:50:43 GMT 10
From ruth
NO, not the corrupt state linsi. They consider GARDEN of EDEN (before the fall) as dating state ng earth. Naniniwala sila na maununumbalik ang earth as GARDEN of EDEN. Kaya lahat ng literatures nila linsi may mga images ng Garden of EDEN and MEN, WOMEN wearing their proper clothes...living in peace & harmony with all other creations.
They believe that Heaven is on earth. Kaya lang na-corrupt and after paghuhukom daw babalik ito sa dati.
And humans will live on Garden of Eden as flesh and blood pa rin NOT SPIRITS. kasi daw God lang ang may SPIRIT. God lang ang nageexist as SPIRIT
nice one ruth,
ayaw pumasok nang mga JW sa ganitong discussions bakit kaya but then meron itong seperate studies, cge lang.. one of the supporting verses against these doctrines in in our bible- 2peter 1:14
Maqn's natural ang physical body is only a temporary tabernacle for the real person which inhibits it..
" knowing that shortly i must put off this, my tabernacle even as my lord Jesus christ had shewed me
"for we know that if our early house, this tabernacle, were dissolved
In the resurrection, man will have a new house not made with hands,, however that new body will have a relationship with this present natural body
paul discussed the resurrection state "it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body, for this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality 1cor 15:, 44:53
this present body that goes back to dust will somehow be changed and transformed into a glorified body.
Nung si christ ay mag resurrect, his body was glorified, although it is touchable "flesh and bones" ( not blood) , it can pass through walls..., so the believer's resurrection body will have a relationship with the earthly body as a new plant is related to the seed from which it springs
1 cor 15:44.
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Post by hottyfecehh on Jun 24, 2006 1:31:53 GMT 10
[teal]kc kuya banshik yun ang result ng pagtanggap by faith kay Christ. resulta na lamang po yun. Ang naka kristo dapat may mabubuting gawa dahil yun ang itinuro ni Christ at mismong ang Diyos ay author ng kabutihan.[/teal] I agree... resulta ng FAITH ang good works... If you idolized Christ, u will automatically follow HIS footsteps...
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Post by bangzhik101 on Jun 26, 2006 12:21:14 GMT 10
Yours: "kc kuya banshik yun ang result ng pagtanggap by faith kay Christ. resulta na lamang po yun. Ang naka kristo dapat may mabubuting gawa dahil yun ang itinuro ni Christ at mismong ang Diyos ay author ng kabutihan. "
Hi Linsi,
1. Mayroon ba na naniniwala kay Kristo na hindi gumagawa ng mabuti? Ano ang mangyayari sa kanila?
2. Meron ba na masasama na sumusonod kay Kristo?
3. The answer is incomplete. It only explains how a person could do good. In your explanation being a result of one's fait in Christ...
(a) But there are those who do good regardless of their faith in Christ?
(b) And why should a person if he already has faith in Christ in order to do good? What is the purpose of this obedience to Jesus? What would happen to man if he has faith in Christ but chose not to do good works?
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 26, 2006 18:56:17 GMT 10
kuya B.
i will reply on Linsi's behalf (linsi sagot ka din, if you like) 1.) kuya merong naniniwala kay Kristo na hindi gumagawa ng mabuti (if mabuti is pertaining to good works like charitable causes)...ito yung mga tinatawag na under God's grace...hindi pa tapos ang Dyos sa kanila
2.) meron din kuya...because we are still of flesh and blood...may kalaban tayo ang flesh at si Satan...so even if we believe in Christ..it is possible that the flesh and satan will rule in certain areas of our lives. lalo na kung di pa complete ang sanctification process.
3.) kuya...yung iniimpart na wisdom ng Dyos sa atin is really incomplete...He is working in each of us in His own way...
there are those who do good regardless of their faith in Christ...kasi nga ang soul natin ay dictated din naman ng conscience...
that means yung mga aeta na nakatira sa bundok na walang nag-evangelize sa kanila ay pwede pa rin gumawa ng mabuti dahil sa conscience..
and if they follow the dictates of their conscience...they will be under God's grace
b.) a person of faith must do good..not only because it is a must...it is a natural progression...that means we have to work on certain areas of our lives na di natin alam na dapat pala ay baguhin (blind spots)...
if a man has faith but not do good works? napagusapan na natin ito Kuya....
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 26, 2006 19:02:00 GMT 10
kuya B,
your line of questioning leads me to believe that you think we are biased against Catholics. which is not the case kuya.
lahat ng nakakilala kay Christ by physical birth....must pass thru death into life (cliche' na ito, but here it is..must be BORN AGAIN!)
it does not matter if you are Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Evangelist...
we must all admit that we are sinful in nature...spritually dead...and accept that God will renew our lives...lahat ng nakagisnan nating pattern...ay dapat na mabago...
if you would not agree with this..we would not be able to agree on anything...
pero di bale Kuya..God is merciful...kahit paulit ulit natin ito pagusapan okay lang...that is God;s promise..uulit ulitin nya ito sa atin sa kahit na anong paraan...hanggang sa makuha natin ...
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Post by ruth on Jun 26, 2006 19:11:52 GMT 10
maski si Paul went thru the same process...
maraming nakakilala kay Christ because our parents introduced us to Him...the Church told us that He is our God...that means it was not really our own free will or choice that we believed...but rather it was influence of society
thats why...we all must pass spiritual death and be born again SPIRITUALLY...
if we will believe that we are RIGHTEOUS without Christ...He will do what it takes to prove otherwise..
and He is realistic kuya...alam naman nya ang limitations natin , our sinful nature...and habang di pa natin ito natutunan..uulit ulitin nya yan..
ganun sya ka-patient at ka-loving kuya...
even sa revelations...maraming beses nailagay dun ang paulit ulit na chances na ibibigay sa atin ng Dyos upang maligtas tayo ay magkaron ng eternal life..
maski ako kuya hindi ko pa alam na ako ay magkakaron ng eternal life or eternal death...kasi eternal life is something that we all must look forward to as Christians...
sa mga di pa nakakaalam ng eternal life...bibigyan pa sila ng chance...there will come a time that Christ will come to earth so that everyone can hear Him...everyone will have equal chance to accept or reject Him..
those who will accept...sasama na sa kanya
yung mga magrereject...may tribulations sa kanila...and then they will experience great pain and suffering that they will have more reasons to believe that Christ is Lord...if they still reject it...well...may judgement kuya...that is eternal death!
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 26, 2006 19:23:57 GMT 10
we are saved because of Jesus blood on the cross...and we must accept this by believing that we are all SINNERS by nature, that we are spiritually dead!..and He is our savior. For us who were born of Christian parents...we must be BORN AGAIN spiritually. To those who have not beeb born of Christian parents...darating ang panahon that the Holy Spirit would reach them thru evangelists..kung hind naman Christ mismo ang magpapakilala sa kanila (during His millenial reaign)
we are being saved...hindi pa tapos..He knows that there are enemies within (flesh and Satan)...He knows that unless He put an end to evil... (which He will do in the end of days)...it is still possible that Satan can win our soul (sabi sa revelations...sasabihan nya ang mga saints na namatay na...to hold fast till the END...that means...may pagsubok pa rin and they have to hold fast...continue to believe in Him...because it is possible that Satan in His deceiftul and cunning ways...can still lure us to rebel agaisnt God)
we will be saved...eto ang focus ng revelations...
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 26, 2006 19:29:54 GMT 10
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw -- that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near. {Rev 1:1-3 NIV}
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Post by ruth on Jun 26, 2006 19:34:06 GMT 10
Blessed is the one who reads the words of his prophecy...
maswerte tayo na may access sa Bible...
Blessed tayo because we have the opportunity to hear God's words thru other people (who sacrificies their precious internet time to do so) and TAKE TO HEART what is written on it
BECAUSE the time is NEAR
ang nakaktawa lang...even in the 1920s may Bible na...but Book of Revelations never changed until today...
laging TIME is near...nung World War 1..akala ng marami...yun na yung sinsabi ng Revelations na TIME is near...nung WW2...akala natin TIME na...daming naging fake prophecies about end of times...
teka nga dun natin ito pagusapan sa thred ni always na TIME!
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Post by bangzhik101 on Jun 26, 2006 20:05:21 GMT 10
Yours Ruth:
1.) kuya merong naniniwala kay Kristo na hindi gumagawa ng mabuti (if mabuti is pertaining to good works like charitable causes)...ito yung mga tinatawag na under God's grace...hindi pa tapos ang Dyos sa kanila
Hi Ruth,
Ok lang. I realize our differences and I respect each one of you.
Agree ako sa statement #1. Pero hindi po natin nasagot ang tanong - "ano ang mangyayari sa kanila?
Meron din akong example dito - ang mga fallen angels. Naniniwala sila kay Kristo pero hindi sila makagawa ng mabuti.
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Post by bangzhik101 on Jun 26, 2006 20:07:51 GMT 10
b.) a person of faith must do good..not only because it is a must...it is a natural progression...that means we have to work on certain areas of our lives na di natin alam na dapat pala ay baguhin (blind spots)...
if a man has faith but not do good works? napagusapan na natin ito Kuya....
HI Ruth,
I just remembered, pareho pala tayo ng position na Faith + Good Works... : )
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Post by bangzhik101 on Jun 26, 2006 20:12:11 GMT 10
your line of questioning leads me to believe that you think we are biased against Catholics. which is not the case kuya.
Hi Ruth,
No offense, from experience from other RF - yes. But the line of questioning was never meant to show any bias but rather a question to prove consistency to a position of faith other denominations hold.
However, I find you and the others very objective and sincere so I find nothing wrong. In fact, I find it very encouraging.
Anyway, lam ni Linsi ito na marami talaga akong alalahanin. Manigat kaya pagdasal ninyo na lang ako. See you guys later...
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Post by hottyfecehh on Jun 28, 2006 1:02:24 GMT 10
Yours Ruth: 1.) kuya merong naniniwala kay Kristo na hindi gumagawa ng mabuti (if mabuti is pertaining to good works like charitable causes)...ito yung mga tinatawag na under God's grace...hindi pa tapos ang Dyos sa kanila Hi Ruth, Ok lang. I realize our differences and I respect each one of you. Agree ako sa statement #1. Pero hindi po natin nasagot ang tanong - "ano ang mangyayari sa kanila? Meron din akong example dito - ang mga fallen angels. Naniniwala sila kay Kristo pero hindi sila makagawa ng mabuti.It's their choice kuyang.... Free will di ba binigay ng Diyos sa angels?
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Post by bangzhik101 on Jun 28, 2006 13:19:23 GMT 10
It's their choice kuyang.... Free will di ba binigay ng Diyos sa angels?
Hi Hotty,
Yes. But the example was meant to illustrate that fallen angels who believe in God are not capable of doing "good works".
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Post by hottyfecehh on Jul 1, 2006 19:28:44 GMT 10
Teka Kuyang, fallen angels naman kamo.... Talking about Fallen angels, kaya nga fallen ANGELS sila kasi hindi sila nagkarun ng FAITH sa God the Father at kay JEsus.... Kasi kung naging FAITHFUL sila sa Diyos e di wala sanang SATAN... Kaso naging unfaithful sila at gusto nila, lalo na si LUCIFER ay gustong upuan ang trono ni LORD.. yung angels na pumanig sa Diyos ay may FAITH sa LORD, yun ang reason na until now, sa Diyos pa rin sila nagsisilbi at patuloy na gumagawa ng mabuti....
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Post by bangzhik101 on Jul 3, 2006 14:28:33 GMT 10
Teka Kuyang, fallen angels naman kamo.... Talking about Fallen angels, kaya nga fallen ANGELS sila kasi hindi sila nagkarun ng FAITH sa God the Father at kay JEsus....
Kasi kung naging FAITHFUL sila sa Diyos e di wala sanang SATAN... Kaso naging unfaithful sila at gusto nila, lalo na si LUCIFER ay gustong upuan ang trono ni LORD..
yung angels na pumanig sa Diyos ay may FAITH sa LORD, yun ang reason na until now, sa Diyos pa rin sila nagsisilbi at patuloy na gumagawa ng mabuti....
Hi Hotty,
Please reflect.
A being who has Faith can commit sin and retain its Faith.
The fallen angels committed a sin (pride) which led them to their fallen state. But they still acknowledge and believe in God (faith)...In fact, they even obey God (for example - when Jesus ordered to leave possessed men....)
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Post by hottyfecehh on Jul 3, 2006 17:00:26 GMT 10
[brown]A being who has Faith can commit sin and retain its Faith.[/brown] [blue]yes.[/blue] [brown]The fallen angels committed a sin (pride) which led them to their fallen state. But they still acknowledge and believe in God (faith)...In fact, they even obey God (for example - when Jesus ordered to leave possessed men....)[/brown] [blue]hmmmnnn...babalikan kita dito kuyang... [/blue]
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Post by supremo on Jul 6, 2006 2:27:17 GMT 10
May pagkakaiba ang FAITH at BELIEVE......PANANAMPALATAYA at PANINIWALA........
"The fallen angels committed a sin (pride) which led them to their fallen state. But they still acknowledge and believe in God (faith)...In fact, they even obey God (for example - when Jesus ordered to leave possessed men....)"
Yes...fallen angels believe in God but they don't have faith in God.....when jesus ordered to leave the possesed man, they obeyed not because of faith...but because of FEAR.....they tremble with fear....
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Post by hottyfecehh on Jul 6, 2006 15:16:17 GMT 10
ayan sinagot na ni friend supremo..... ayos a!
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migy
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Post by migy on Jul 16, 2006 20:22:05 GMT 10
Commercial Muna! "1 Thessalonians 2:4 but just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not to please man, but to please God who tests our hearts." English Standard Version God Bless Us All....
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Post by charlie on Aug 22, 2006 11:09:21 GMT 10
Salvation? Baka naman pwedeng simula sa umpisa. Kung pwede lang, isa pa, kay Jesus Christ lang ba? Pano yung iba? Alin ba ang tamang simbahan na dun mo makikita ang tamang interpretation ng bibliya? Lahat naman ay Jesus Christ di ba?
May pumupunta sa amin na saksi ni jehobah, merong mga mormon, dahil nag babahay bahay sila, at may mga born again din akong nakausap na. Ang dami naman kase at di mo na ma concentrate kung alin na nga.
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Post by fruthie on Aug 22, 2006 16:14:28 GMT 10
Salvation? Baka naman pwedeng simula sa umpisa. Kung pwede lang, isa pa, kay Jesus Christ lang ba? Pano yung iba? Alin ba ang tamang simbahan na dun mo makikita ang tamang interpretation ng bibliya? Lahat naman ay Jesus Christ di ba? May pumupunta sa amin na saksi ni jehobah, merong mga mormon, dahil nag babahay bahay sila, at may mga born again din akong nakausap na. Ang dami naman kase at di mo na ma concentrate kung alin na nga. there is only one way...PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.. www.rbc.org/personal_relationship_with_god.pagebasahin mo kapatid. dun sa mga di makakabasa...by GRACE.
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Post by fruthie on Aug 22, 2006 16:15:08 GMT 10
kung ayaw mo magbasa kapatid...may tanong ako sa yo...if you will die today, saan ka pupunta?
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Post by empire on Dec 11, 2006 1:52:58 GMT 10
(Salvation? Baka naman pwedeng simula sa umpisa. Kung pwede lang, isa pa, kay Jesus Christ lang ba? Pano yung iba? Alin ba ang tamang simbahan na dun mo makikita ang tamang interpretation ng bibliya? Lahat naman ay Jesus Christ di ba?
May pumupunta sa amin na saksi ni jehobah, merong mga mormon, dahil nag babahay bahay sila, at may mga born again din akong nakausap na. Ang dami naman kase at di mo na ma concentrate kung alin na nga.)
Simple lang po para malaman natin kung alin nga ba? Pagmasdan mo ang kanilang mga gawa at pamumuhay.
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Post by rafael on Mar 7, 2007 2:19:17 GMT 10
(Salvation? Baka naman pwedeng simula sa umpisa. Kung pwede lang, isa pa, kay Jesus Christ lang ba? Pano yung iba? Alin ba ang tamang simbahan na dun mo makikita ang tamang interpretation ng bibliya? Lahat naman ay Jesus Christ di ba? May pumupunta sa amin na saksi ni jehobah, merong mga mormon, dahil nag babahay bahay sila, at may mga born again din akong nakausap na. Ang dami naman kase at di mo na ma concentrate kung alin na nga.) Simple lang po para malaman natin kung alin nga ba? Pagmasdan mo ang kanilang mga gawa at pamumuhay.
So does this speak of only good acts leading to good life? Millions of non- christian societies are governed by good acts leading to their good lives.
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Post by Always on Mar 7, 2007 11:58:15 GMT 10
Still, it does not change the fact that on the most basic level, free enterprise base on Christian values affords humankind the most opportunity to act as responsible steward when creating wealth and opportunity And this economic freedom which derived from Christianity affirms its inherent worth as compared to the ones from countries without god
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Post by delta on Mar 14, 2007 23:01:21 GMT 10
Baka nga naman pwedeng simulan ang usapan sa umpisa, yung salvation.
Sa palagay nyo ang pag pepenitensya ay wala talagang halaga? Paanu kung taos sa puso at yun ang alam nung mga gumagawa nun na sa sakripisyo nahuhugasan ang kasalanan at mapupunta rin sa langit sa bandang huli?
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migy
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Post by migy on Aug 30, 2007 18:20:19 GMT 10
God is Fair...
kaya God will explain it to an individual pag d makuha...
read lang the Bible... the best solution...
smile people..
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ruth.
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Post by ruth. on Aug 30, 2007 18:56:52 GMT 10
Baka nga naman pwedeng simulan ang usapan sa umpisa, yung salvation.
Sa palagay nyo ang pag pepenitensya ay wala talagang halaga? Paanu kung taos sa puso at yun ang alam nung mga gumagawa nun na sa sakripisyo nahuhugasan ang kasalanan at mapupunta rin sa langit sa bandang huli?
By grace po...pwedeng masave..kahit po yun di gumawa ng mabuti during his lifetime may pag-asang ma-save BY GRACE (AWA ng DYOS)... but then again, during our lifetime God (through the Holy Spirit) will not stop inviting us to be saved.. mas gugustuhin po ba nating matikman ang SALVATION sa kabilang buhay lang...we can experience the joy of salvation in our lifetime.. but first we have to be convicted..na lahat tayo ay makasalanan (regardless kung mas marami kang nagawang mabuti kesa sa masama)..ang kasalanan ay kasalanan..maliit man on malaki.. and of course...we have to make the choice..na tumanggap na Dyos lang ang makakasave sa atin ---tumanggap ngayon...wag nang mag-antay pa.. while do good works now...and then wait for Salvation later? is it not better to be saved first and then good works as a product of our salvation?? mas mahirap ba gumawa ng mabuti when you are already saved? if not, why wait? why just settle for it at the end of your lifetime when you can enjoy it today?
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Post by leanne. on Sept 6, 2007 11:28:30 GMT 10
Mahirap ang usapan dito basa muna
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