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Post by linsi on May 26, 2006 12:06:44 GMT 10
gusto ko sanang discuss sa pinaka simple ang isip ng tao according sa psychology at ang pagkakatulad nito sa ating paniwala.
yung concept lang muna ha, wak tanunging si freud at hindi siya kristyano, kukunin ko ang isa sa mga konsepto nya.
Freud understood the mind as constantly in conflict with itself, and understood this conflict as the primary cause of human anxiety and unhappiness.
di nga ba at ang ating ligaya at lungkot ay depende sa isip ng tao? kc ito ang master function ng tao. pag nag decide tayo sa isip na maging postibo ok yun pero pag pinili natin ang negatibo sa isip, yun ang nagbibigay ng lungkot lalo sa tao..
itutuloy
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Post by linsi on May 26, 2006 13:22:17 GMT 10
Freud's investigations into internal conflicts such as this led him to an eventual division of the mind into three parts, three conflicting internal tendencies, the well-known id, ego, and super-ego.
hindi hinati ni freud ang isip sa tatlo, wala pong tatlong maliliit na tao sa isip na nag aaway away The personification of these elements merely serves as a convenient guide through a complex psychoanalytic theory.
sa pinaka simpleng theory lumabas and id, ego (ego ideal) and superego, ito po ang ginagamit ng mga psychologist at psychiatrist sa pag gamot sa mga mentally disturbed, mentally handicapped at mentally ill na mga tao at maging sa kristyanismo, may mga christian psychologists at christian psychiatrist na sumasailalim sa mga prinsipyong ito when dealing with patients in the medical field.
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Post by linsi on May 26, 2006 13:30:38 GMT 10
lahat ng tao ay nagkakarun ng mental imbalance, lalo na kung meron tayong depressions, hindi mapagkatulog, mga fears imagined at karaniwan pumupunta tayo sa psychologist at kung minsan we are given prescriptions of drugs which helps. Hindi lang ito yung mga taong sobra lagi ang nasa isip , yung mga sobrang paranoid, etc...yung wala sa normal range , we are all subject to it.
yun pong ibang drugs ay divided sa relaxants, sedatives and stimulants para po mapakealaman ng chemical drugs na mga ito ang excitability ng isip.
pag sobrang hyperactive ang isip binibigyan ng relaxants pag sobrang depressed binibigyan din relaxants, pag sobrang passive binibigyan naman ng stimulants,
at pag sobrang sobrang sobra na ang depressions lalo sa mga mental hospitals binibigyan sila ng ECT-electroconvulsive threapy
kung ganun ang gusto kong i present ay ang complexities ng isip ng tao, according to psychology at ang pagkakatulad nito sa ating paniniwala o faith.
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Post by linsi on May 26, 2006 13:43:04 GMT 10
dito lumabas ang theory ni freud about the id, ego (ideal ego) and superego
at sa pinaka simpleng example na naibigay noon na at ang nakakalungkot hindi naman binigyan ng pansin, nag post ng nag post tayong lahat ng gusto nating i push na idea at hindi ito pinansin kaya uulitin ko dito (nanaig ang mga id eh wah ;D)
Id- pleaseure principle
at ito ay maoobserbahan sa mga babies
yung pleaseure principle ay walang pakealam kung saan mo kukunin ang gatas basta gutum ang baby agad ang gusto niya ay mabusog- pleasure principle or gratification lang [/b][/color]
As the baby emerges from the womb into the reality of life, he wants only to eat, drink, urinate, defecate, be warm, and gain sexual pleasure. These urges are the demands of the id, the most primitive motivational force.
Ang id ay para sa grastification lang, yung makuha ang gusto hanggang dyan lang ang id.
If a young child was ruled entirely by his id, he would steal and eat a piece of chocolate from a store regardless of the menacing owner watching above him or even his parents scolding beside him.
dito ngayon papasok ang culpability at moral law, hindi pinapansin ng id ang batas gaya sa example ng bata na nagnakaw ng chocolate dahil sa pleasure principle
[/color]
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Post by linsi on May 26, 2006 13:54:17 GMT 10
Ego
Ito po ang reality principle ni Freud
Sa ego nabubuo ang defense mechanism, meron ding: repression
ang halimbawa ko dito ay ang sexual desire ng isang may asawa sa kanyang dalagang ka office mate- i re repress ito ng ego hanggang sa makalimutan na lang at di na ito isipin
isa pang halimbawa ay ang ating mga natatagong takot, trauma,galit at hinanakit, pilit nating kinakalimutan at ito ay kagagawan ng ego, ibinabaon ng ego sa subconscious, pero paminsan minsan ay lumilitaw kaya nagkakarun tayo ng imbalances, biglang nalulungkot tayo etc..at konting kibot lang na trigger tayo kaya tayo ay nagwala or nag flare up o naghamon ng away-
madalas sinasabi nating- may problema ang taong yan-traumatic, o di kaya pabiro sasabihin nating menopausal or may period kahit lalaki pa ito kaya pasensya na..
so according to freud:
Repression, a fundamental, usually unconscious function of the ego, maintains equilibrium in the individual by repressing inappropriate, unfeasible, or guilt-causing urges, memories and wishes (all usually of the id) to the level of the unconscious, where they will be out of sight, if not out of mind.
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Post by linsi on May 26, 2006 14:05:00 GMT 10
Superego nahahati ang superego sa CONSCIENCE AT EGO IDEAL
Ang conscience ang ang nagsasabi ng tama at mali, iniimpluwensyahan nito ang ego na kumbinsihin ang id ng gumawa lang ng tama, yung morally acceptable yung ego ideal na parte ng conscience ay siyang nag lulunsad para gawin ang ideal, perfect goals instilled by society
summary
id- gusto ko ng chocolate na nasa tindahan
ego- pwede pero wala kang pera
superego- wag mali yan yan ay pagnanakaw, ang pagnanakaw ay isang uri ng krimen.
napakasimple po ng aking ibig sabihin at napaka simple ng mga halimbawa dito-
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Post by linsi on May 26, 2006 17:19:28 GMT 10
hope everyone interested got my point of view here about the mind specially the conscience regarding psycho analysis
yung mali sa iba at tama sa iba.. nasa conscience din, kung ano ba ang tama sa kanila dapat yun ang sundin ng conscience nila
yung tama sa christians sa atin yun, yung tama sa mga muslims sa kanila yun so the conscience dictates only for the right thing according to what is right in their culture. but most especially sa common grounds..
na example ko na pag binuhusan ka ba ng asido sa mukha masama ba yun sa mga christians at hindi sa pagans?
similarity lang po, so if anyone would base my aforementioned posts dito one must understand what i mean..
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Post by Always on May 28, 2006 15:00:58 GMT 10
Hello Linsi My take on this is that a person must study Christian Psychology in general in order to fully understand your topic. Btw, it also includes one's health in order to know such psychology
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Post by linsi on May 31, 2006 16:46:34 GMT 10
Hello Linsi My take on this is that a person must study Christian Psychology in general in order to fully understand your topic. Btw, it also includes one's health in order to know such psychology
agree , my emphasis is the reflection of God acknowledging that sound mind and sound decisions only come from God in christian psychology.
psychology avoids statements and therapies with cold tainted religion, psychology applies its own universal approach to every individual in order not to offend other societies aside from christianity.
when somebody comes to you who is a muslim/buddhist/ aetheist, and seek your advise about problems about nightmares and insomnia, psychologists donot say christ will help you, he would rather discuss positive measures with appropriate medical support in order for that patient to cooperate with the needed therapy.
when you consult a christian psychologist or psychiatrist and the patient is a christian believer, the christian psychologist would emphasize more on theraphy not gospel preaching because a believer is supposedly getting that already from the church.
the chritsian psychologist would start with similar basic procedure of answers and questions, and all the human mechanisms such as positive thinking, reinforcements, diversions (music, trusted friends, travel) with the addition of Prayer to the christian God.
he may suggest drinking warm milk rather than coffee, exercise before sleeping, warm bath and a good book and if situation is more difficult the psychologist would refer the patient to a psychiatrist that would prescribe mild sedatives.
the goal is the same= to eshtablish a normal and sound sleeping pattern.
bottomline:
God has given man the capacity for better mental health.
Why are nightmares formed in our dreams? as shown in the example? The bible does not illustrate in medical details the mechanism of dreams and the slip of the tongue but christians must know and christians must equate everything to the bible
where does intuition come from,?
sabihin ng iba ah basta sa bible lang ako- we must know in order for us to fortify our faith in God.paano kung may nag tanong scientifically, we donot know how to face them?
Christ admonished us to defend our faith to those who are questioning us.. paano kung hindi alam gaya ng marami like basta, basta
Science i believe is under the permissive will of God.
medicines and hygiene were taught in the old testament, Paul has taught about water with a portion of wine to heal, Christ applied a lot of psychology..
Humanists donot know that they are operating on the very principles of God.
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Post by migy on Jun 12, 2006 11:42:39 GMT 10
Ang ISIP Iniisip kong sana makabalik na ako at matapos na lahat ng concerns ko wahhhhhhhh Walang halong biro maganda ang topic basa basa muna.
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 16, 2006 21:03:25 GMT 10
linsi, there is a danger lurking ...kasi kapag bagong Christian pa lang...and I think even those who are learned na with the Bible...may chance pa rin na ma-lure ka sa popular culture...napakasubtle pa naman ng difference between the goodness of certain pop culture...at ng Bible...that sometimes we think it is Bible based when in fact it is not...
kapag naman masyado kang Bible based..people will tend to see you as self-rigtheous hypocrite, buang...baduy kaya...or simply naive...
the point here is the Holy Spirit work on us in different ways...we just have to make sure that we are guided by it instead of the influences around us...
kaya whenever I read a book (like 7 Habits of Highly Effective People)...i try to compare its wisdom and value as it was written in the Bible..
when Stephen Covey talked about perception and how people look at the same thing and yet do not understand each other...
For examplem kami ng nanay ko natutulog sa isang kwarto...ang 22 degrees Celsius sa akin malamig na...sa kanya mainit pa (gawa kasi ng hot flushes nya)....
iba iba ang perceptions natin ng init at lamig...so when someone asks you malamig ba sa Hong kong ngayon? To be objective, you have to really say it in an objective measure of the weather...probably in celsius...
sa Bible, we can not always use objective measures...kasi we are dealing with the Spiritual side of MAN and God...its value cannot be measured...as love cannot be measured...
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 16, 2006 21:04:37 GMT 10
commercial po ulit... ano po ang nakikita nyo sa picture na ito?
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Post by linsi on Jun 16, 2006 21:58:47 GMT 10
commercial po ulit... ano po ang nakikita nyo sa picture na ito?
dalawa ang nakita kong figure sa loob ng 6 seconds..
btw parang bitin ata meh dun sa explanations mo baka pedeng dagdagan
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Post by peng on Jun 17, 2006 15:29:06 GMT 10
Lalaking naka side view na may salamin sa mata.
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 19, 2006 14:35:31 GMT 10
Lalaking naka side view na may salamin sa mata. sa kabilang thread sabi ni supremo..you are a LIAR! ahehehhe! TRIVIA lang po... sabi mo lalaking naka side view na may salamin sa mata... si linsi...dalawa daw ang nakikita nya... what if I say both of you are LIARs! ahehhe si SUPREMO lang ang TAMA?? am i being objective...if I tell you na LIAR kayo...while si SUPREMO ay tama, kasi pareho kami ng nakita?
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Post by ruth on Jun 19, 2006 14:39:13 GMT 10
ang totoo po...pareho-pareho po tayong TAMA!
magkakaiba lang tayo ng perspective. we look at the same thing but view it from different perspectives.
our eyes are trained to look at the human face na close up at nakaharap sa atin. our eyes are trained to read the text horizontally at di dikit dikit...
but this text, which says LIAR...ay written horizontally at dikit dikit...kaya di natin kagad nakikita.
ganyan po kapowerful ang isip. it can be programmed to look at things in a certain way. but you can still flex it a little bit more...but it requires more effort to do so.
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 19, 2006 14:40:23 GMT 10
that means...seeking to understand than being understood requires MORE EFFORT...but it does not mean we should give up understanding other people's point of view.
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Post by ruth on Jun 19, 2006 14:54:14 GMT 10
linsi,
Stephen Covey (author of 7 Habits of Highly Effective People) is a very responsible man, very principled...but He is not entirely a Godly man.
If you will read his books..incluind the 7 Habits of Highly Effective Families, mappansin mo that his principles are also the principles written in the Bible...marami syang mga phrase na quoted verses from the Bible..
but if you will read First Things First ...another book he authored...he said being God-centred is not a habit of a Highly effective organization or Highly effective person.
he said a Highly effective organization/person must be PRINCIPLE-CENTRED not God-CENTRED to be HIGHLY EFFECTIVE.
it is very subtle...yet his premise is very convincing...he is very influential...
ang sabi pa nya FAMILY is the basic cell of society so it should be top priority..he also values the sancitity of marriage...but he bases all his premise on PRINCIPLES...not GOD..
I guess Stephen Covey has been a pastor or a church leader in the past. And he became more focused in the HUMANITY side of MAN...than the SPIRITUAL side of man. Although he values the spiritual side of man...mas focus sya sa psychology.
Meron nagsabi dati...that man cannot deny his spiritual needs...because if he denies his need for God...he will serve other gods...god of power...god of money...god of fame...
yan din ang principle ni Stephen Covey...but he only treat the need for spritual things from a psychological and human standpoint.
Am not sure though, if Stephen Covey is intentionally veering away from the Bible/God in order to influence non-Christians in a subtle way.
or is it the other way around? workings of the devils trying to lure us? (ayan na naman akow...baka mapagkamalang buang)...ahehhe!
kaya nga po...all well meaning books, friends, family will also need to be tested. So, now I dont mind if my well meaning intentions are also being tested. It takes one to know one...ahehehe!
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 19, 2006 14:58:10 GMT 10
now...back to being objective...
if you test the spirtual side of a person, how can one be objective?
mahirap po ito...kasi nga spirtuality cannot be measured...if we use pyschology to measure one's spirituality, where are we going to start?
kapag sinabi ko na Stephen Covey is being used by the devil to lure us...baka pagkamalan lang ako na buang! or that he is influencing non-Christians in a subtle way?
so paano nga ba? paano mo immeasure ito without losing your objectivity?
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 19, 2006 15:04:13 GMT 10
so we must guard our heart's and mind...
i also guess this is the reason why David said in Psalms...
so teach us to number our days (INSTILL FEAR in our MINDS), that we may gain a heart of wisdom...
ganyan kapowerful ang isip...that it can teach the heart to be wise...or the opposite...which is to be foolish...
now how can one measure...wisdom and folly? ahehhhe! how can we be objective in this realm?
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 19, 2006 16:46:14 GMT 10
linsi,
i cant help it...i really want to discuss 7 Habits ahehhee
isa pang 'wisdom' ni stephen covey...sometimes I can see King Solomon in him...I just hope that like Solomon...he will find out that his principles are God Centred too ahehe
sabi nya we must work on our Circle of Influences...not our Circle of Concerns...when it comes to matters about our faith then we should also work on Circlue of Influence...in the following order
1. personal 2. family & friends 3. home group 4. community 5. unbelieving people & nations
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ruth
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Post by ruth on Jun 19, 2006 17:38:33 GMT 10
back to Stephen Covey's premise...that HIGHLY EFFECTIVE people are PRINCIPLE CENTRED and not GOD CENTRED..
I think God's intention is for MAN not to be highly effective in his life on earth...kaya kahit daming bumibili ng book ni Stephen Covey...di pa rin effective ang mga tao...
naku nagiging philosophical discussion na hahahha!
wud u agree that the most difficult to influence on matters about faith are our family & closest friends?
try mo kaya sabhn sa nanay at tatay mo about man's sinful nature? nyahehheee...
sabihan ka pa...anak ka lang! how dare u talk to me like that?
at hindi nga ba ang sabi ay Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother?
so how?
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Post by hottyfecehh on Jun 20, 2006 15:36:50 GMT 10
Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding(isip) is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding(isip) also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding(isip) also.
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Post by hottyfecehh on Jun 20, 2006 20:35:26 GMT 10
The verse above is about the HUMAN MIND...
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Post by hottyfecehh on Jun 20, 2006 20:37:48 GMT 10
Para magawa ng tao ang pang-espiritwal na gawain, sumasabay ang isip...
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Post by linsi on Jun 20, 2006 22:39:51 GMT 10
now...back to being objective... if you test the spirtual side of a person, how can one be objective? mahirap po ito...kasi nga spirtuality cannot be measured...if we use pyschology to measure one's spirituality, where are we going to start? kapag sinabi ko na Stephen Covey is being used by the devil to lure us...baka pagkamalan lang ako na buang! or that he is influencing non-Christians in a subtle way? so paano nga ba? paano mo immeasure ito without losing your objectivity?
hi lanie
when we talk of objectivity we just remember the word object, apart from us. You look at an object apart from yourself.
when we talk of subjectivity
we are part of it we are the subjects
a good example is: a performer and an audience.
to be objective you look at the performer as an audience
to be subjective, you now takes the place of the performer.
a biblical example is love
agape love is objective in the sense that it is for the sake of others
now subjective love is our love concerning ourselves..
that is only one part of the illustrations.
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Post by linsi on Jun 20, 2006 22:43:19 GMT 10
ang agape love is unconditional wether we are loved back in return or not, it is always for the sake of others, kahit nasaktan tayo or kahit nilait tayo, still we favor others. that is being objective. that is God's love for people.
pag subjective yan ang super react..like tipong
masama ka kc siniraan mo ako, pero pag objective ganito, maaring siniraan ang tingin sa sinabi mo pero may puntos kc totoong dadadada....
that is going back to what is objective..
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Post by linsi on Jun 20, 2006 22:48:57 GMT 10
from ruth
mahirap po ito...kasi nga spirtuality cannot be measured...if we use pyschology to measure one's spirituality, where are we going to start
according to american heritage dictionary
psychology
1. The science that deals with mental processes and behavior. The emotional and behavioral characteristics of an individual, group, or activity: the psychology of war.
2. Subtle tactical action or argument used to manipulate or influence another: He used poor psychology on his employer when trying to make the point.
3. Philosophy The branch of metaphysics that studies the soul, the mind, and the relationship of life and mind to the functions of the body.
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Post by linsi on Jun 20, 2006 22:53:04 GMT 10
can we therefore say a man is spiritual? yes,
when we say measuring spirituality, i think man has his own rough measurements of spirituality, i may perhaps say that one cannot measure the amount of how to attain salvation.
is there a difference between faith and spirituality?
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Post by linsi on Jun 20, 2006 22:54:58 GMT 10
so ende ko yata masyadong mak gets and tanong, low pik ap ata meh ngayon
the question is how can one measure spirituality without losing objectivity?
now...back to being objective... if you test the spirtual side of a person, how can one be objective? mahirap po ito...kasi nga spirtuality cannot be measured...if we use pyschology to measure one's spirituality, where are we going to start? kapag sinabi ko na Stephen Covey is being used by the devil to lure us...baka pagkamalan lang ako na buang! or that he is influencing non-Christians in a subtle way? so paano nga ba? paano mo immeasure ito without losing your objectivity?
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