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Post by Always on Nov 11, 2006 3:29:45 GMT 10
Karl Marx denounced religion.
In what way did he ever denounce it
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Post by rafael on Jun 23, 2008 7:27:57 GMT 10
Through the price of the working class.Wages were given sparsely, and when capital gain improved,the money paid for labor did not reflec this prosperity.This therefore accelerated the downfall of the proletarians and progressed through a justifiable revolt against the oppressive middle class.
The conculsion of this revolt was envisioned to be a classless society, one which its people benefit from and that benefits from its people. The overthrow of capitalism would create a socialist society eventually flourishing into communism,
Karl Heinrich Marx (1818-1883), was the philosophical analysis who created communism and saw it as an achievable goal.Marx denounced Religion and created what were thought as radical ideas
www.planetpapers.com/Assets/811.php
The world has too many religion to hate each other.
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Post by rafael on Jun 23, 2008 7:33:41 GMT 10
Was Karl Marx right?
My answer is, In a way.
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Post by Always on Jun 25, 2008 14:45:49 GMT 10
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Post by rafael on Jul 1, 2008 15:29:47 GMT 10
I said karl Marx was right in a way-
If we care about life, if we see our obligations in each others faces, then we have to want all the things capital does to be governed by that care, to be directed by the ethical concern for life. But feeding people is not the aim of the food industry, or shelter the purpose of the housing industry. In medicine, making profits is becoming a more important goal than caring for sick people. As capitalist enterprises these activities aim single-mindedly at the accumulation of capital, and such purposes as caring for the sick or feeding the hungry becomes a mere means to an end, an instrument of corporate growth. Therefore ethics, the overriding commitment to meeting human need, is left out of deliberations about what the heavyweight institutions of our society are going to do.
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Post by Always on Jul 4, 2008 23:39:19 GMT 10
8-)C'mon Rafael You pasted these statements and yet you didn't understand anything ;D So now tell us, why did Karl Marx failed specifically on his positions of such principles?
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Post by rafael on Jul 10, 2008 20:57:43 GMT 10
8-)C'mon Rafael You pasted these statements and yet you didn't understand anything ;D So now tell us, why did Karl Marx failed specifically on his positions of such principles? Is there communications here? If there is a free choice as what you said, capitalists has chosen more evil and harm than good against the working class.
Globalization is a related term of Capitalism were the rich are favored to kill small businesses and entrepreneurs. It enslaves children to work and creates inhuman labor practices where the gap between the rich and the poor widens.
You can read my previous posts.
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Post by Always on Jul 12, 2008 3:08:07 GMT 10
Is there communications here?Yes there is and you're just not opening up If there is a free choice as what you said, As if there's none I asked you to define "freedom" but you did not obligate to defend your ground by not answering my querrycapitalists has chosen more evil and harm than good against the working class.Just like what you said, they sinned because those capitalist have chosen their paths apart from social justice. But will they be able to carry their wealth when they die Globalization is a related term of Capitalism were the rich are favored to kill small businesses and entrepreneurs. It enslaves children to work and creates inhuman labor practices where the gap between the rich and the poor widens. Hmmmn, an old marxist distortion saying that capitalism to be a system of exploitation. Did you not know that Marx believed that capitalist economy not only flourishes in but relies on crises to stimulate the economy and with such reliance on crises will create economic havoc in the long run. ;D but look what happened to USSR because of Marxist economy
Social injustices is not uncommon in any capitalist who tends to sin which is apart from the teachings of the Bible. But then, these injustices are very common in the countries with no god (ie. Myanmar, USSR, North Korea, China) and the only difference is that most of these corruption were left undetected. As I said, after the fall of USSR, all of your aforemention injustices plus a lot more were present in the economy of Marxism.
You can also read a lot of these indifferences of what has been actually happening in China ever since it opened up to the international media. People being enslaved for labor while military officials became rich. This is also in consonance to a Filipino activist named Jose Maria Sison, the highest ranking official of the CPP, an oranization founded on Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong thought and philosophies. He got rich by staying in Netherland and lived there in royalty while his armed wing (the NPA people) had been living in poverty and sacrificing themselves battling the government in futile cost.
Si Sison nakakakain ng mga masasarap ng mga pagkain at tumira na parang milyonaryo pero ano ang nangyayari sa kanyang mga tao na inuto at na-brainwashed - NAGHIHIRAP.
You can read my previous posts.Well, can you read my post now?
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Post by Always on Jul 12, 2008 3:25:25 GMT 10
Karaniwan na kasing nababasa mo pero hindi mo sinasagot eh so uulitin ko ulet: "So now tell us, why did Karl Marx failed specifically on his positions of such principles?"
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Post by rafael on Jul 17, 2008 4:55:52 GMT 10
God created man as stated by Creationists, Fair play is a must which go with this theory, but man cannot keep up with the rules of a god, Karl Marx introduced awareness of the rights of the working class, as the capitalists took advantage.
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Post by Always on Jul 17, 2008 9:58:24 GMT 10
"... Karl Marx introduced awareness of the rights of the working class, as the capitalists took advantage." What Karl Marx introduced was a failed economic system and the very proof of this had been the country where it was introduced grounded in its failed political philosophy and practice.
The rights of the working class are nothing new to the unions of every corporation, company, firm, or any business entity in a capitalism. These unions are the ones that oversee bargaining power with regards not only to the rights but also in the working conditions of employees.
As for employees working for smaller companies and could not afford to join a union, there is always an agency of Labor Department in every state or capitalist country.
In the end, free enterprises were the ones that can only save a country from impending economic disaster. Therefore, when you posted "Karl Marx in a way was right" is wrong in every aspect of his economic philosophy and practices as a system. And history dictates it to be a proven fact; thus it is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH
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Post by rafael on Jul 18, 2008 2:08:03 GMT 10
A loophole when you read this article. Bowring: Underinvesting in the future.
SINGAPORE: South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore have over 40 years averaged roughly the highest consistent economic growth rates in the world. All but Korea have steadily accumulated massive surplus savings and foreign reserves.
All four economies have costly housing but high home-ownership rates. So even at the family level, the value of the future workforce is not given its due.
The scramble for wealth and a shift to unitary living has undermined the belief that children are a protection against the uncertainties of old age. Yet the state, on the assumption that old values should prevail, has yet to fill the gap. State budgets show huge surpluses, but by taking scant heed of the needs of parenthood or the elderly.
www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/07/opinion/edbowring.php
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Post by Always on Jul 18, 2008 6:42:13 GMT 10
So what's your point? You are just running away again from your Karl Marx foundation of argument.
~sigh~
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Post by rafael on Jul 23, 2008 3:08:21 GMT 10
So you did not get the point. Just look how Capitalism creates a much bigger graveyard for the working class.
Again, Globalization.
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Post by Always on Jul 23, 2008 10:17:29 GMT 10
So you did not get the point. Just look how Capitalism creates a much bigger graveyard for the working class.
Again, Globalization.
That I know for sure I asked what's your point in defending your stance for Karl Marx's aggressive economic revolution? What you posted only enhanced that free enterprise is a way better and more beneficial for the world.
And if it's a graveyard for the working class as Marx have thought in the first place in his doctrine as a form of exploitation, then, Marxism should have been (still) alive and doing well today. But, it is the contrary to the fact. What Karl Marx failed to understand (as you have accorded yourself into it) is that capitalism or free enterprise must me based on what the Bible say:
Pro 10:4 He becometh poor that dealeth [with] a slack hand: but the hand of the diligent maketh rich. (KJV)
Do you know what itmens? It means that capitalism in order to be successful it must within the realm of competition based in the Bible. Because if it's not, then, in:
Pro 14:23 In all labour there is profit: but the talk of the lips [tendeth] only to penury. (KJV)
And if an individual abuses such knowledge, result will be as in:
Pro 14:24 The crown of the wise [is] their riches: [but] the foolishness of fools [is] folly. (KJV)
What you failed to see is that it is the abuses of an individual person if he sets himself apart from the teachings of the Bible, but, it does not deter the fact the capitalism is sustaining the lifeforce of the world's global economy. How about trying to coincide this with environmental ECO-SYSTEM in analogy
If still, you can not understand that, then, the Bible have foretold that about you (& Karl Marx's ideology).
Pro 14:25 A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful [witness] speaketh lies.
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Post by rafael on Jul 26, 2008 19:11:11 GMT 10
If china embraces capitalism then it must not remain as a socialist, communist country.The fact that it remains as i said is contradictory to what you are trying to promote as bible based free enterprise as you can read between the lines.
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Post by Always on Jul 28, 2008 0:45:43 GMT 10
If china embraces capitalism then it must not remain as a socialist, communist country.The fact that it remains as i said is contradictory to what you are trying to promote as bible based free enterprise as you can read between the lines.
I do not need to rephrase my question since it is clear enough to be fully understood. When I asked about capitalism, it means I am asking about its economic system as in economy and not about its political and ethical system.
To prove my point is Hong Kong's One country, two systems policy. It is a province of China and yet it extremely embraced capitalism into its fold under the watchful eye of its communism. Having a good trend of capitalism, China embraced (or welcomed) foreign investors into its domain and most of Chinese officials are saturated with capitalist values and the only thing they have maintained from previous era is its religion of atheism.
Omt, capitalism is an offshoot of free enterprise theory from the Bible just as communism is an offshoot of socialism
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Post by rafael on Aug 2, 2008 5:19:03 GMT 10
If china embraces capitalism then it must not remain as a socialist, communist country.The fact that it remains as i said is contradictory to what you are trying to promote as bible based free enterprise as you can read between the lines.
I do not need to rephrase my question since it is clear enough to be fully understood. When I asked about capitalism, it means I am asking about its economic system as in economy and not about its political and ethical system.
To prove my point is Hong Kong's One country, two systems policy. It is a province of China and yet it extremely embraced capitalism into its fold under the watchful eye of its communism. Having a good trend of capitalism, China embraced (or welcomed) foreign investors into its domain and most of Chinese officials are saturated with capitalist values and the only thing they have maintained from previous era is its religion of atheism.
Omt, capitalism is an offshoot of free enterprise theory from the Bible just as communism is an offshoot of socialism
Again, Hong Kong was a province of Britain for 150 years, do I need to say that Hong Kong never adapted China's way of living but rather China adapts to Hong Kong for fear of destroying its wealth? Hong Kong has been a capitalist city since becoming the crown colony and even after it was reclaimed by China. That is what you said as economic system.
Now, i was pointing about the working class which is abused by governments. Had it not been for political greed, it should have thrived.
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Post by Always on Aug 2, 2008 10:23:25 GMT 10
Again, Hong Kong was a province of Britain for 150 years, do I need to say that Hong Kong never adapted China's way of living but rather China adapts to Hong Kong for fear of destroying its wealth? Hong Kong has been a capitalist city since becoming the crown colony and even after it was reclaimed by China. That is what you said as economic system.
Now, i was pointing about the working class which is abused by governments. Had it not been for political greed, it should have thrived.
There you go, you just said it; "... rather China adapts to Hong-Kong ..." Adapts as in conforms, embraces, accomodates, reconciles, or adjusts.
Hence, Communism (China) needs to adjust (adapt, conform et al.) into capitalism (HK)and not the other way around
Need I say more since you already justified my pertinent point of Capitalism being embraced by Communism?
YAHOO!!!
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Post by rafael on Aug 17, 2008 23:57:07 GMT 10
What Karl Marx introduced was a failed economic system and the very proof of this had been the country where it was introduced grounded in its failed political philosophy and practice.
[/quote]
Failure is on the part of the greedy capitalists. The god of order as you repeatedly say gives a true example of justice, and yet these capitalists never has been just in dispensing what is due for the labor force.
Just look at the third world economies laden with forced labor , enslaving children, women and impoverished society with no choice but to work for them. and condone them through globalization
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Post by Always on Aug 18, 2008 19:57:26 GMT 10
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Post by rafael on Aug 18, 2008 21:46:30 GMT 10
The major factors of the fall of the soviet union was not their political system,neither their economic condition.
Two major forces were very cruisial to the downfall.From the east it was Islam and the west Christianity.
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Post by rafael on Aug 18, 2008 21:47:26 GMT 10
If China's decision is to maintain its economic growth it has to retain its atheistic nature.
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Post by Always on Aug 18, 2008 22:20:08 GMT 10
The major factors of the fall of the soviet union was not their political system,neither their economic condition.
Two major forces were very cruisial to the downfall.From the east it was Islam and the west Christianity.
It seems that you are trying to re-write history again just for the sake of your blind exploitation. Did you not know that Gorbachev's decision not to use military power to put down revolutions in the Eastern Europe further eroded the the power of the old USSR during 1989 and 1990; and because of such, the fall of the Berlin Wall and the communist fovernment throughout the old Soviet Bloc generated demands for economic reform, political reform, and reforms in human right issues to the government of the old USSR. Non-Russian minority groups throughout the Soviet Union agitated for independence during those period. Why do you think the NPA are asking for reforms? They want changes and what is the embodiment of these changes that the newly 15 independent republics have longed for - what else but :-[REFORMS
And the Baltic Republics led the way in demanding such reforms and freedoms from the old chain of failed ideology
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Post by linsi on Aug 18, 2008 22:27:06 GMT 10
If China's decision is to maintain its economic growth it has to retain its atheistic nature.
It is the possibility of personal wealth which drives men to be their best ...
without that possibilty, men become stagnant, unmotivated and uninspired.....
That's what the western world stands for-
One good example is Yao Ming- Hadn't NBA gotten him he would still be in China and unpolished.
it is the drive of the people and a government of the people, by the people and for the people which makes a nation grow and suceed.
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Post by Always on Aug 18, 2008 22:27:29 GMT 10
If China's decision is to maintain its economic growth it has to retain its atheistic nature.
Your answer is not clearly expressed. Do you know why? Because communism is not entirely atheism. Until you learn that then perhaps you will be enlightened As you see, Japan is not a Christian country and yet they exercise free enterprise; the same goes with Singapore.
Communism is different? Now, try researching on that wilyah puhleese
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migy
Moderator
moderator in his designated rooms
Posts: 2,544
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Post by migy on Aug 19, 2008 0:23:07 GMT 10
Ibig mong sabihin Raf, It has been Morally Blessed Because of their Fate? please educate us nga... ============= Ref/Parekoy, na-curious lang ako ha... medyo sumingit lang ako ng konti... sige po, continue.... raf, paki expound nga ng konti lang....
If China's decision is to maintain its economic growth it has to retain its atheistic nature.
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Post by rafael on Aug 30, 2008 4:43:45 GMT 10
Your answer is not clearly expressed. Do you know why? Because communism is not entirely atheism. Until you learn that then perhaps you will be enlightened As you see, Japan is not a Christian country and yet they exercise free enterprise; the same goes with Singapore.
Communism is different? Now, try researching on that wilyah puhleese Countries vary in what is politically suited for each place. China is different from japan in many ways.
Take Democracy as exampe, America's democracy is unique to them and may not be applicable to others as Japan's democracy is different.
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Post by rafael on Aug 30, 2008 4:45:03 GMT 10
Ibig mong sabihin Raf, It has been Morally Blessed Because of their Fate? please educate us nga... ============= Ref/Parekoy, na-curious lang ako ha... medyo sumingit lang ako ng konti... sige po, continue.... raf, paki expound nga ng konti lang....
If China's decision is to maintain its economic growth it has to retain its atheistic nature.
migy, perhaps you could discuss the meaning of "blessing" in this thread.
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migy
Moderator
moderator in his designated rooms
Posts: 2,544
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Post by migy on Aug 30, 2008 7:05:51 GMT 10
Hi Raf... am hoping that we can cling on our shares, to start... as far as am concern you undertand tagalog as well right.... please bear with me...
i may not be gifted with extra intelligence or wide knowledge for an individual person, but i do believed that The Word of God is like a Two Edged Sword that can penetrates us inside of our hearts...
sa maniwala ka man o hindi Sir. Raf, we have a fair God...
pede kang maging successful sa kasipagan but wealth is not an excuse receiving Law of God either the other way...
God gave us instructions in His Word... (God gave us Freewill and there should be a way na maiintindihan ng isang tao ang salita ng Diyos unless i deny niya ito and it will be his/her Choise, but if people neglect his freewill unto God, he/she Just made a choice...)
and sorry to tell you that if anyone denies Jesus, he shall be denied by our God the Father...
Whosoever Deny Jesus Christ... Mathews 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven
Whosoever Believed…John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.
No Other name whereby we must be saved.Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
“Who Can forgiver sin’s – Only God” ".... who can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7Acts 2:38 “Peter answered, ‘Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.’”
I wonder how it is hard for an individual to know what God's message is, isn't it obvious that God just wants us to be save...
may magagawa ba yung deeds natin or may magagawa ba yung pag gawa natin ng mabuti sa "salvation natin?
We are Save by Grace (God’s Mercy) Ephesians 2:8, 9... "For by grace (God's mercy) are we saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, "NOT OF WORKS" lest any man should boast." (You cannot earn your salvation by either doing something or NOT doing something)Efeso 2:8-9 dahil sa kagandahang loob ng Diyos ay naligtas kayo sa pamamagitan ng inyong pananalig kay Cristo. At Ang kaligtasang ito ay kaloob ng Diyos, hindi mula sa inyo. Hindi ito dahil sa inyong gawa, kaya’t walang dapat ipagmalaki ang sinuman.
Not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us through the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit" ( Titus 3:5). Does it very hard to follow, imagine or to be done?
are we seeking God's Way?
Seek First the Kingdom of GodMathew 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be provided for you.Matthew 7: 13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.Matthew 7: 14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Hope i have shared with you God's enlightment for mankind...
"it's not my word, it is we believed God's Word... Holy Bible... "
God Bless Us All....
(Note: if i cannot attend to your replies, pls. have patience since i have to attend obligations and one of my obligations as well is to share with our Group... what i mean is personal obligations because i Love my God who always take good care of my... i do believe that it is my covenant to Our Living God... to share but not to dictate a person...) Ibig mong sabihin Raf, It has been Morally Blessed Because of their Fate? please educate us nga... ============= Ref/Parekoy, na-curious lang ako ha... medyo sumingit lang ako ng konti... sige po, continue.... raf, paki expound nga ng konti lang....
migy, perhaps you could discuss the meaning of "blessing" in this thread.
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