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Post by hottyfecehh on May 26, 2006 8:11:11 GMT 10
Kuya banshik.... Heto na.. Discuss it here the nature of being a MAN, Moral and Natural LAW... Sunooooooogggg! este Fire na...
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 26, 2006 15:07:51 GMT 10
from hotty:
moral law=the law of duty as regards what is right and wrong in the sight of God; specifically, the ten commandments given by Moses
natural law Function: noun : a body of law or a specific principle of law that is held to be derived from nature and binding upon human society in the absence of or in addition to positive law
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 26, 2006 16:46:53 GMT 10
Hi Ruth & Hotty,
Question 1: Should Moral Law and Natural consistent with each other?
Question 2: Where should human conscience prescribe?
Question 3: What would be the role of Natural Law in the absence of Moral Law?
Question 4: What happens to a position of faith which is not consistent with Moral Law and Natural Law?
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 26, 2006 16:51:07 GMT 10
BTW Hotty...
I hope you are doing well in oyur study.
St. Thomas Aquinas is a very good reference.
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Post by hottyfecehh on May 26, 2006 17:42:11 GMT 10
Pahabol: Pede isali ang Human Mind? Nature of being a MAN, MOral and natural law plus the HUMAN MIND...
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 26, 2006 17:56:37 GMT 10
Hi Hotty,
Intellect and Reason puwede...
Human mind medyo clinical ang approach....
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Post by hottyfecehh on May 27, 2006 16:20:52 GMT 10
Kuyang, ang concience napag-uusapan sa kabila...Kung walang human mind dito, pano na lang si konsensya e kasama yun sa isip ng tao....
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Post by Always on May 28, 2006 15:05:54 GMT 10
Maganda ang topic na ito at tiyak mau-unawaan na dito kung ano ang tunay at dapat na pananaw sa salitang Christian Ethics
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Post by linsi on May 28, 2006 15:09:29 GMT 10
Maganda ang topic na ito at tiyak mau-unawaan na dito kung ano ang tunay at dapat na pananaw sa salitang Christian Ethics
sana mag post naman si mr moderator about christian ethics.. para may mga sources pah
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Post by Always on May 28, 2006 15:25:06 GMT 10
Sana nandito si Kuya DF para magkaroon ng flashback I already tackled this with him hanggang sa pumasok na sa tabula rasa ni Bolshoi kaya parang naging clean slate
Okay, kapag naging mahaba-haba na ang topic Maganda ang topic na ito at tiyak mau-unawaan na dito kung ano ang tunay at dapat na pananaw sa salitang Christian Ethics
sana mag post naman si mr moderator about christian ethics.. para may mga sources pah
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 29, 2006 12:31:28 GMT 10
Kuyang, ang concience napag-uusapan sa kabila...Kung walang human mind dito, pano na lang si konsensya e kasama yun sa isip ng tao....
Hi Hotty,
Gaya ng sinabi ni Always, the discussion would cover on Christian ethics. Discernment is not limited to the "human mind' but actually covers Reason and the Intellect.
There is a predicament in trying to include a discussion on the human mind because the "mind" is not what gives essence to the being or humanity of man. Tama man o mali ang pagiisip ng tao - tao pa rin siya. At maraming mga hayop na may "mind" o pagiisip ngunit hindi sakop ng ethical responsibilities.
Pero kung ang paguusapan ang bagay kung ano ang nagbibigay kahulugan sa pagkatao, Reason and Intellect ito. Isa ito na gusto kong maiparating noon sa Topic ng Conscience, pero minabuti ng iba na dito na lang pagusapan.
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 13:21:55 GMT 10
quote banshik:
Q1. What do you think is the relevance of these in Man's faith?
Q2. If man already has a conscience, why do we need these Laws for?
Q3. If man acknowledges these laws, why does man still disobey and sin?
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 13:30:40 GMT 10
1.)
for a Christian, our basis of what is right or wrong must be based on The Law as stated in the Bible and not the law as stated by man or by the world around us....
pero paano naman ito eepekto sa taong di pa nakakaalam ng Bible? siguro dun na papasok ang relevance ng Natural Law...
2.) we need The Law (as stated in the Bible) in order for us to know that we are sinners...we would not be able to know that it is a sin (offense towards God), if there is no Law written (for example: if the Lord did not say: Thou shall not coveth...then I would not be able to know that it is an offense towards God to coveth)
we need Natural Law, to maintain peace and order on earth
3) Man still disobey and sin, because it is part of human nature... but it does not mean we cannot gain victory over sin... it does not mean we can abuse God
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 13:54:29 GMT 10
Question 1: Should Moral Law and Natural consistent with each other?
it SHOULD, but it does not happen and will never happen, kasi ibat iba tayo ng background, culture, personality...so Natural Law is ever changing....
but God's Law does not change, it remains the same regardless of culture, generation, personality
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 13:56:03 GMT 10
Question 2: Where should human conscience prescribe?
human conscience SHOULD prescribe to Moral Law
but again..refer to my answe to Q1
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 13:58:53 GMT 10
Question 3: What would be the role of Natural Law in the absence of Moral Law?
it should take precedence over Moral Law...
for example for Muslims/Pagans who have not heard of The Bible..then Natural law applies to them
according to the Bible: those who are under The Law (Moral Law) will be judged by The Law...
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 14:02:04 GMT 10
Question 4: What happens to a position of faith which is not consistent with Moral Law and Natural Law?
again...according to the Bible
those who are under The Law (Moral Law) will be judged by The Law...
those who are not under The Law...whatever that maybe is subject to God's dispensation of Grace...
paano naman po napasok ang position of Faith?
my Faith in God, that He exists, that He is powerful, does not change even if all the written Law (Bible) is not yet clear to me...
I still believe in Him, regardless of my knowledge or ignorance of The Bible...
Matthew 17:20 20And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 14:07:56 GMT 10
ngayon nature of man naman...
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 14:08:57 GMT 10
Kuyang, ang concience napag-uusapan sa kabila...Kung walang human mind dito, pano na lang si konsensya e kasama yun sa isip ng tao.... Hi Hotty, Gaya ng sinabi ni Always, the discussion would cover on Christian ethics. Discernment is not limited to the "human mind' but actually covers Reason and the Intellect. There is a predicament in trying to include a discussion on the human mind because the "mind" is not what gives essence to the being or humanity of man. Tama man o mali ang pagiisip ng tao - tao pa rin siya. At maraming mga hayop na may "mind" o pagiisip ngunit hindi sakop ng ethical responsibilities. Pero kung ang paguusapan ang bagay kung ano ang nagbibigay kahulugan sa pagkatao, Reason and Intellect ito. Isa ito na gusto kong maiparating noon sa Topic ng Conscience, pero minabuti ng iba na dito na lang pagusapan. sorry Kuya B...di ko magets e!
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 14:11:13 GMT 10
basta ang alam ko sa Nature of Man, is he is a SINNER by nature because of the ORIGINAL SIN...we were born SINNERS
but Christ was sent to redeem us from SIN
and therefore all of us can gain victory over SIN...so that we will be changed according to what God has intended us to be (pure and undefiled)...but it is a LOOOOONG PROCESS...hindi po ito nangyayari overnight...
for example: God intended us to be patient ...but we can not be patient if there is no long suffering...if there is no waiting...
so if you will insist that man by nature is Good...well I think you meant God intended us to be Good...
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 14:36:16 GMT 10
kuya B,
ikaw naman, magremit muna ako pangtuition ng bro ko...
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 16:31:55 GMT 10
an excerpt:
Three reasons why we must learn the law 1.) to align ourselves to with that for which we are intended.. the joy of discovery respect and wholeness It is delightful to be given permission to experience a new possibility. The law has that effect for us. It is God's way of saying, "You were made for this. You don't have to live on a lower level than this."
"This is for what you were made. This is what the owner's manual had in mind. This is why we are the way we are."
We experience the joy of discovery, and discover that for which we were made. We do not have to live on a more inferior basis than that.
2.) obedience to the law will shape our character
What marks us as redeemed is the fact that obedience to the law will continue to form our character. It is not the external identifications, but obedience to the Lord. Therefore, the law will serve us in that way as well. It not only helps us to discover that for which we were made, but it binds us together as a chosen community. It marks us off from the slavery of Egypt from which we were taken and from the strong enemies on every side around us. It gives us a place to stand and binds us to one another because we are joined together in knowing the Lord and doing what he says.
3.)delight will come naturally
The law begins by speaking to us from a distance, telling us about ourselves while giving us guidance to our goal. It helps us who love God to know how to love him effectively. Hopefully, as time goes on, it requires less conversation and becomes more natural because we are more sensitive to the Spirit. We no longer have to regiment ourselves, as it becomes the thrill of our heart to live as we ought to live. The law will serve us in this way. It will begin externally to us, but it will increasingly become that which is our very desire from the inside.
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 29, 2006 16:34:39 GMT 10
for a Christian, our basis of what is right or wrong must be based on The Law as stated in the Bible and not the law as stated by man or by the world around us....
pero paano naman ito eepekto sa taong di pa nakakaalam ng Bible? siguro dun na papasok ang relevance ng Natural Law...
Hi Ruth,
Very Good. This is the reason why even non-christians can arrive at a universal concept of common good. This also means the precedence of Law over conscience as the arbiter of good and evil because it is actuall the law which defines and sets the standards.
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 17:21:43 GMT 10
should I jump for joy? sa wakas nagkaintindihan din..sa tingin ko talaga pareho lang kayo ng paniniwala ni Linsi.. (about conscience)
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 17:33:23 GMT 10
okies lang at least nagkalabasan ng bituka..
really good discussion...
thanks Kuya B for the leading questions...
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Post by linsi on May 29, 2006 17:34:42 GMT 10
di nga ba at sinabi kong conscience is the voice of God...
e kahit naman may moral law pag ayaw ng free choice ng tao, gaya ng suicide,, tatalon talaga yan sa 50th floor at magpapatiwakal ahek
kung si adam at eve nga hindi sinunod yung unang batas kung tutuusin nga napaka ideal nung eden wala na silang hahanapin pa inisnab yung unang batas eh ayaw maniwala dun sa unang batas samantalang guide yun anong sinunod ni adam at eve yung free choice nila pagkatapos anong nangyari sinurot sila ng conscience nila nagka guilt sila haay
inuman na nga lang hehehe..
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Post by linsi on May 29, 2006 17:35:42 GMT 10
okies lang at least nagkalabasan ng bituka..
really good discussion...
thanks Kuya B for the leading questions...
aheheh asan ang pepsi kc nung simula pa lang yan na ang aking sinasabi eh..
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 17:38:45 GMT 10
ngayon balik sa consciece ba?
a.) conscience is the voice of God
b.) The Law should take precedence over conscience as arbiter of good and evil as it is the Law that sets the standard.
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 29, 2006 17:44:36 GMT 10
ay teka pala The Law should take precedence over conscience as arbiter of good and evil as it is the Law that sets the standard which Law ba? Moral Law o Natural Law? ??
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 29, 2006 17:52:40 GMT 10
Hi Hotty,
Gaya ng sinabi ni Always, the discussion would cover on Christian ethics. Discernment is not limited to the "human mind' but actually covers Reason and the Intellect.
There is a predicament in trying to include a discussion on the human mind because the "mind" is not what gives essence to the being or humanity of man. Tama man o mali ang pagiisip ng tao - tao pa rin siya. At maraming mga hayop na may "mind" o pagiisip ngunit hindi sakop ng ethical responsibilities.
Pero kung ang paguusapan ang bagay kung ano ang nagbibigay kahulugan sa pagkatao, Reason and Intellect ito. Isa ito na gusto kong maiparating noon sa Topic ng Conscience, pero minabuti ng iba na dito na lang pagusapan.
Ruth: sorry Kuya B...di ko magets e!
Hi Ruth,
Sorry, malalim kasi ako magpaliwanag kung minsan.
What I was trying to say here is that we have to distinguish between the "mind" and the "Intellect". The mind is only a physical attribute of man. A person maybe in a "sound" mind or a mental case - but the person is still "man". However, it is not the case with the intellect which is an element of the soul. Take away the "intellect" from the soul, and essence of man ceases to exist. Thus, it is the intellect which brings an element of humanity to man and not the mind.
For example, the mind is more on behaviour. But lower animals also excercise a form of behaviour. The limitation of which is that it could not ascertain right from wrong. But the "intellect" can which means it sets us apart from other creatures. Thus, the discussion regarding the Nature of Man should not cover the "mind" but rather the "intellect". : )
sana luminaw : )
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