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Post by linsi on May 5, 2006 19:08:14 GMT 10
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Post by linsi on May 5, 2006 19:14:36 GMT 10
the final judgment is different...that is when we come face to face with God where the judgment seat of God comes and we are judged wether we go with HIM or the other side..
people judge in their everyday life as Christ has commanded us to judge righteously, wether we judge carelessly or not we judge by our choices that is the free will.. the choosing faculties, the conscience gives the verdict according to theories stated please read..
again God's final judgment is different i am just confining my statements to what i said that man must use his conscience to be his guide until another challenged that statement to be wrong.
christians and pagans alike.. ALL RELIGIONS teach what which is good and right according to their precepts therefore universally both christians and pagans have the image of God which is the sole creator of humanity and the goal to do what is harmonious and good.
I also said earlier that this is not a christian educ per se.. it is universal..when we discuss christian theology it would be more detailed and specified according to christianity only
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 5, 2006 23:57:26 GMT 10
wheew!
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Post by ruth on May 6, 2006 0:08:33 GMT 10
hi linsi,
i agree with u and banshik about your posts about free choice...
however may gusto pa rin ako liwanagin about conscience...
papaano kung halimbawa ang pagkakaalam ko Love is good..there is nothing wrong with love di ba? what if you Love the wrong person...is it considered evil?
and conscience ba ang nagsasabi sayo na this is the wrong person?
wrong sya dahil married sya --- pero sa mga Muslim hindi ito problema sa mga Christians lang..
if conscience is the same for Christians and non Christians..bakit magkaiba ang judgement nila about loving a married man..
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 6, 2006 0:26:24 GMT 10
for purpose of discussion lang po yun case study ko sa taas..
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Post by linsi on May 6, 2006 0:45:38 GMT 10
hi linsi, i agree with u and banshik about your posts about free choice... however may gusto pa rin ako liwanagin about conscience... papaano kung halimbawa ang pagkakaalam ko Love is good..there is nothing wrong with love di ba? what if you Love the wrong person...is it considered evil? and conscience ba ang nagsasabi sayo na this is the wrong person? wrong sya dahil married sya --- pero sa mga Muslim hindi ito problema sa mga Christians lang.. if conscience is the same for Christians and non Christians..bakit magkaiba ang judgement nila about loving a married man..
hi ruth
simplehan natin.. actually you are pointing at the christian measurements and christian doctrines
conscience as freud says is the judge which dictates a man in doing right.
let us set aside chrsitian theology as i said, we were born in a christian setting you were asking me about God saving others kahit wala kay Christ di ba?
Now again i am talking about the universal good.
the muslims have their own set of standards which are acceptable to them and what is acceptable is their moral good which is right in their standards.
those who live by their own laws and were born in those laws will live by their standard measurements which are morally good and acceptable to them..and shall be judged by their own laws as our bible stated..
ang tanong ng conscience, nandaya ka ba? nang argabyado ka ba? gumawa ka ba ng masama? that is universal standard of what is good. dun pumapasok ang konsensya regardless of being a buddhist, christian, muslim or pagan
yan po ang ineemphasize ko nung una pa man ang kaso ang mga sagot po ay umikot sa christian doctrines e di ang pag usapan na lang natin Holy Spirit at yung naiintindihan lang ng christians? we limit ourselves to christianity samantalang i am aiming for a universal understanding of what is a conscience..para lahat ng mga tao regardless of religion, culture, and geography will arrive at a common knowledge that there is one superior being and that is God..
to say that Christ is the one true God i agree but because i am born a christian.. paano yung ibang nilikha ng Diyos?
ang mga muslim po ay hindi pwedeng magasawa ng marami basta, they have set of standards to qualify legitimacy regarding polygamy..at kapag hindi naka meet sa standard na yun the conscience will again judge and give guilt..
Conscience is the judge dictating what is right for us christians according to the voice of Christ, for the muslims according to the voice of allah, for buddhist according to the voice of buddha and so fourth and so on
bottomline: the conscience is the judge which dictates humanity what is right according to their precepts..
solomon, david and the old testament people were polygamous and so salvation is in question?
we donot talk about salvation, we talk about the conscience as the voice of God for those who believe, the voice of the Holy spirit for Christians and the voice of what is right which is universal for all mankind..
yan po ang ibig kong tukuyin kc i am being questioned about universal good dahil pilit na ipinapasok nung iba e christian doctrines..
let us reverse paano ang mga muslim??? di ba sa kanila e kakitiran ng isip ang mag asawa lang ng isa lalo at palpak ang napangasawa?? see? now what will be the universal guide?
the conscience.. sana maintindihan ako..
thanks ruth for the question sana magkarun pa ng discussions dahil gusto kong maging kristyano na marunong gumalang sa nakagisnan ng iba..
ayokong manghusga dahil hindi ako Diyos..
ayokong sabihing dahilan sa rebulto hindi maliligtas at dahilan sa polygamous e bagsak na sila sa impiyerno..
Let the conscience speak for it because God resides in the conscience of man as what i discussed lengthily paki balikan na lang po God is universal and He alone will judge..
tama na ang rebulto ay hindi dapat but that is one of the rules, pero nakasunod ba ang tao sa lahat ng rules? then lahat ay hindi maliligtas dahil yung 10 utos e hindi kayang sundin..
alam po nila migy ang faith ko and that is personal
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Post by linsi on May 6, 2006 0:57:44 GMT 10
to continue
God said obey the law of the land..paano kung muslim ang isang tao at ang batas ng muslim ang nakagisnan ? ano ngayon ang judge sa isip niya??
Holy Spirit ba? of course not, the conscience will judge and dictate what is acceptable to the common good of that society.
Solomon and David were polygamous but God said David 's heart was pleasing to HIM. see? Our God is against divorce but still God divorced israel when this nation sinned against Him, see?
Did Israel remain as the chosen race? YES,
so if we will discuss conscience it is the universal command of what is good, kung ang pag uusapan ay Holy Spirit then we will discuss and limit the concept to christianithy alone
e paano nga yung mga hindi naka rinig or tumanda at namatay na muslim at buddhist.. are they judged as deviants and bad? ang sagot ko lang sa mga kapwa christians let us look at our selves in the mirror, kung tayo ay bold sa ating christian doctrines let us reflect ourselves in the mirror and widen our horizons about others who are also created by God and loved by God as well without compromising our faith.
ahehe..
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ruth
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Post by ruth on May 6, 2006 1:06:21 GMT 10
eh linsi..the thread is under Christianity kaya siguro parang nalilimitahan sa Christian doctrines at Christian perception of "conscience"... anyways, I agree this is really a good discussion...reminiscent of RF
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Post by linsi on May 6, 2006 1:14:50 GMT 10
ahehe honga ruth eh, pero walang contradictions kung tutuusin kung lalawakan lang natin ang isip natin kc nun pa man sinabi ko kay sir empire na ang conscience ng mga christians e boses ng Holy Spirit.. hindi naman ako nag disagree
pero mukhang gusto e purong christian doctrines samantalang ang ginamit ko ay parallelism ng theories ni freud na kahalintulad ng christian doctrines..paano kung may nagbabasang agnostic dito di hindi maiintindihan at lalong hindi natin ma i introduce ang ating Diyos
wala bang pagkaka taon ang ibang theories?
para sa akin ang mga scientific and psychiatric theories na hindi salungat sa bibliya ay galing din sa ating Diyos. Those who are not against us are for us.[/size] e ende naman pedeng lagay sa other religions yung conscience ahehe [/color]
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Post by ruth on May 6, 2006 11:56:26 GMT 10
The Bible also speaks about conscience of unbelievers (does not trust/believe Christ)
Romans 2:14-15 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)
============================ I truly believe God has placed basic principles of His law in every man's conscience...with or without reading the Bible...with or without believing Him as a savior.
These basic principles can be part of scientific and psychiatric theories na hindi nga salungat sa Bibliya.
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Post by theservant on May 6, 2006 17:32:27 GMT 10
nice set of examples/shares/faith, ms. linsi, tutoo na we have a compassionate God and i do believe na He is fair and just, and if we will go back to His Word, He even told us, Judge not and you will not be Judge, agree ako sa puntos mo, ke tama or mali Diyos pa rin ang huhusga sa tao inline with conscience na tinatawag or naririnig or masasabi natin na binubulong satin na Diyos. para sakin pareho kayong me puntos ni empire, ruth, banshik. kaso lang di magkaroon ng linya. palagay ko po magagawan ng paraan ito. thanks po sa lahat ng nagshare, continue lang po, ganda pong magbasa pag gumaganda takbo ng palitan. to God indeed be all the Glory & Honor peace po sa lahat!
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Post by theservant on May 6, 2006 17:41:00 GMT 10
please pardon me sharing this word of God about conscience; 2 Corinthians 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
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Post by migy on May 6, 2006 18:30:03 GMT 10
Hi People, Linsi's right, when it comes to faith, talaga po ang kapatid na yan, She will always stand for what is written in the Bible... As well as considers faith from others has to be taken and share with but not to please them, only to introduce them the Good News, men cannot end up concluding except God... We believed that God made us to share and proclaim the good news, we don't have to really explain or interpret, it was purely sharing, coz the one who will make us understand is the Love of God... One has to accept Jesus as His Lord and Savior, but papano naman ang mga Pagans/Unbelievers kung di pa nila ina accept and Lord as their savior or even the Humanist/Agnostics, does it means we will end up sharing with them, that's a no no! As a diplomats of our Lord Jesus Christ, we don't have to close the relation but instead share the goodness of God by gradually introducing salvation to them... And i do believe that by sharing to our friends in Catholic faith is not wrong, it's the conscience that brings us to friendships, not to please them but to share with them. That is why still our Friend, Kuya Banshik, Midnight and many are still sharing with us... Please bear with us sharing to one another, I think we are free to choose what is right and the leading of that still small voice that we are hearing... God always make a way! And i think this Thread is a God's way of sharing His love... Tuloy lang po! Teka po mag Coke muna ang init ngayon dito, ayy Pepsi pala to... Pero mas gusto ko Coke hi linsi, i agree with u and banshik about your posts about free choice... however may gusto pa rin ako liwanagin about conscience... papaano kung halimbawa ang pagkakaalam ko Love is good..there is nothing wrong with love di ba? what if you Love the wrong person...is it considered evil? and conscience ba ang nagsasabi sayo na this is the wrong person? wrong sya dahil married sya --- pero sa mga Muslim hindi ito problema sa mga Christians lang.. if conscience is the same for Christians and non Christians..bakit magkaiba ang judgement nila about loving a married man..
hi ruth
simplehan natin.. actually you are pointing at the christian measurements and christian doctrines
conscience as freud says is the judge which dictates a man in doing right.
let us set aside chrsitian theology as i said, we were born in a christian setting you were asking me about God saving others kahit wala kay Christ di ba?
Now again i am talking about the universal good.
the muslims have their own set of standards which are acceptable to them and what is acceptable is their moral good which is right in their standards.
those who live by their own laws and were born in those laws will live by their standard measurements which are morally good and acceptable to them..and shall be judged by their own laws as our bible stated..
ang tanong ng conscience, nandaya ka ba? nang argabyado ka ba? gumawa ka ba ng masama? that is universal standard of what is good. dun pumapasok ang konsensya regardless of being a buddhist, christian, muslim or pagan
yan po ang ineemphasize ko nung una pa man ang kaso ang mga sagot po ay umikot sa christian doctrines e di ang pag usapan na lang natin Holy Spirit at yung naiintindihan lang ng christians? we limit ourselves to christianity samantalang i am aiming for a universal understanding of what is a conscience..para lahat ng mga tao regardless of religion, culture, and geography will arrive at a common knowledge that there is one superior being and that is God..
to say that Christ is the one true God i agree but because i am born a christian.. paano yung ibang nilikha ng Diyos?
ang mga muslim po ay hindi pwedeng magasawa ng marami basta, they have set of standards to qualify legitimacy regarding polygamy..at kapag hindi naka meet sa standard na yun the conscience will again judge and give guilt..
Conscience is the judge dictating what is right for us christians according to the voice of Christ, for the muslims according to the voice of allah, for buddhist according to the voice of buddha and so fourth and so on
bottomline: the conscience is the judge which dictates humanity what is right according to their precepts..
solomon, david and the old testament people were polygamous and so salvation is in question?
we donot talk about salvation, we talk about the conscience as the voice of God for those who believe, the voice of the Holy spirit for Christians and the voice of what is right which is universal for all mankind..
yan po ang ibig kong tukuyin kc i am being questioned about universal good dahil pilit na ipinapasok nung iba e christian doctrines..
let us reverse paano ang mga muslim??? di ba sa kanila e kakitiran ng isip ang mag asawa lang ng isa lalo at palpak ang napangasawa?? see? now what will be the universal guide?
the conscience.. sana maintindihan ako..
thanks ruth for the question sana magkarun pa ng discussions dahil gusto kong maging kristyano na marunong gumalang sa nakagisnan ng iba..
ayokong manghusga dahil hindi ako Diyos..
ayokong sabihing dahilan sa rebulto hindi maliligtas at dahilan sa polygamous e bagsak na sila sa impiyerno..
Let the conscience speak for it because God resides in the conscience of man as what i discussed lengthily paki balikan na lang po God is universal and He alone will judge..
tama na ang rebulto ay hindi dapat but that is one of the rules, pero nakasunod ba ang tao sa lahat ng rules? then lahat ay hindi maliligtas dahil yung 10 utos e hindi kayang sundin..
alam po nila migy ang faith ko and that is personal
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Post by Always on May 6, 2006 21:00:06 GMT 10
hi linsi, i agree with u and banshik about your posts about free choice... however may gusto pa rin ako liwanagin about conscience... papaano kung halimbawa ang pagkakaalam ko Love is good..there is nothing wrong with love di ba? what if you Love the wrong person...is it considered evil? and conscience ba ang nagsasabi sayo na this is the wrong person? wrong sya dahil married sya --- pero sa mga Muslim hindi ito problema sa mga Christians lang.. if conscience is the same for Christians and non Christians..bakit magkaiba ang judgement nila about loving a married man.. Hello Ruth,
Conscience amongst all men are all the same; may it be with Christian or Non-christian. And conscience falls under a common moral heritage, which could be defined as anything from an attitude to a relying yardstick that measures actions against any set of standards. But then, such standard may be questioned whether this is absolute and on what grounds.
Sometimes, FreeWill and Conscience are almost identical; but in reality, they are entirely different in grounds if base on what kind of morality it is from
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Post by Always on May 6, 2006 21:15:54 GMT 10
please pardon me sharing this word of God about conscience; 2 Corinthians 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. Hello The Servant!
Christian morality is founded on this belief in an absolute moral order, which is not arbitrarily handed down by the Creator to manifest difficulties for all mankind. God's very nature is Holy, therefore, can not tolerate evil or moral indifference - and this is what we call 'sin.'
(As as addendum to my Ruth's reply,) Christian Ethics may be different to that of the Muslim's but they share a common goal - for it is simply a basic pattern of similarity among ethical codes.
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Post by Always on May 7, 2006 15:50:44 GMT 10
ang tanong ng conscience, nandaya ka ba? nang argabyado ka ba? gumawa ka ba ng masama? that is universal standard of what is good. dun pumapasok ang konsensya regardless of being a buddhist, christian, muslim or pagan [/size] yan po ang ineemphasize ko nung una pa man ang kaso ang mga sagot po ay umikot sa christian doctrines e di ang pag usapan na lang natin Holy Spirit at yung naiintindihan lang ng christians? we limit ourselves to christianity samantalang i am aiming for a universal understanding of what is a conscience..para lahat ng mga tao regardless of religion, culture, and geography will arrive at a common knowledge that there is one superior being and that is God.. to say that Christ is the one true God i agree but because i am born a christian.. paano yung ibang nilikha ng Diyos? bottomline: the conscience is the judge which dictates humanity what is right according to their precepts.. solomon, david and the old testament people were polygamous and so salvation is in question? we donot talk about salvation, we talk about the conscience as the voice of God for those who believe, the voice of the Holy spirit for Christians and the voice of what is right which is universal for all mankind.. yan po ang ibig kong tukuyin kc i am being questioned about universal good dahil pilit na ipinapasok nung iba e christian doctrines.. let us reverse paano ang mga muslim??? di ba sa kanila e kakitiran ng isip ang mag asawa lang ng isa lalo at palpak ang napangasawa?? see? now what will be the universal guide? the conscience.. sana maintindihan ako.. thanks ruth for the question sana magkarun pa ng discussions dahil gusto kong maging kristyano na marunong gumalang sa nakagisnan ng iba.. ayokong manghusga dahil hindi ako Diyos.. ayokong sabihing dahilan sa rebulto hindi maliligtas at dahilan sa polygamous e bagsak na sila sa impiyerno.. Let the conscience speak for it because God resides in the conscience of man as what i discussed lengthily paki balikan na lang po God is universal and He alone will judge.. tama na ang rebulto ay hindi dapat but that is one of the rules, pero nakasunod ba ang tao sa lahat ng rules? then lahat ay hindi maliligtas dahil yung 10 utos e hindi kayang sundin.. alam po nila migy ang faith ko and that is personal [/color][/quote] "Let love be sincere and without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good."~~Romans 12:9
In order to really perceive what the term conscience is all about and how it is nominally common to non-christians, one must be very familiar with Biblical Christian Ethics. Ruth is correct in mentioning that the topic itself is limited to being in a Christian way; simply for the reason that when comparing things to others, Christianity should be use as a measuring tools as is with others who rely almost exclusively onto their economic or naturalistic philosophy.
As I always believed in, Christian ethics is not apart from theology (inseparable if you will) because Christian ethics is grounded in the character of God. Hindi ba ang lahat ng bagay dito sa mundo ay hindi pareho sa Kanya? Kasi, some things conform to His own character; amd some are opposed to it. Kaya ang Christian ethics through its moral order ay siya mismo ang nagdedetermina kung ano ang talagang mga sang-ayon sa katauhan ng Diyos at anu-ano din ang mga hindi. Kasi, tayong mga Kristiyano, we place ethics in a moral order revealed by our Divine Creator. Naalala pa ba ninyo ang sinabi ni Apostol Pablo sa Dos Korinto 4:18? At ang eternal moral order na ito is non other than the reflection of the character of God.
As underlined, dito natin masasagot kung ang pag-aasawa ba ng marami sa mga Muslim ay tama? Nasa Koran ba kaya na ang imahen ni Allah ay isang Diyos na maraming asawa? Hmmmn
Pero isipin natin noong unang panahon nila Eba't Adan - paano kaya dumami ang mga tao [/color]
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Post by kenmikaze on May 7, 2006 16:50:51 GMT 10
con·science ( P ) Pronunciation Key (knshns) n.
The awareness of a moral or ethical aspect to one's conduct together with the urge to prefer right over wrong: Let your conscience be your guide. A source of moral or ethical judgment or pronouncement: a document that serves as the nation's conscience. Conformity to one's own sense of right conduct: a person of unflagging conscience. The part of the superego in psychoanalysis that judges the ethical nature of one's actions and thoughts and then transmits such determinations to the ego for consideration. Obsolete. Consciousness.
Conscience is different from conviction
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 8, 2006 11:04:14 GMT 10
Linsi,
You said: "Commonly used metaphors refer to the "voice of conscience" or "voice within".
conscience is the sole judge, the will chooses between rioght from wrong that makes it free.."
This is the predicament. Conscience can never be considered the sole judge whether because if it is the sole judge between Good and Evil, why would there me revelation of God concerning Moral Law. It is God who would be the final judge of Good and Evil, not man. This is a doctrinal and biblical truth.
Furthermore, your statement does not respond to the nature of man being a "limited" being which means that man could err. This also means the conscience also falls prey to this limitation and may lead to "false conscience" - a situation which man tries to justify all his actions are mroally good although it is not.
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 8, 2006 12:02:26 GMT 10
Hi Linsi,
Your response: "the will has two choices it is for the positive or negative, the conscience is the judge of the will. No, the conscience is not a part of both the will and intellect, the conscience is the sole judge where it just dictates what is right and good. the will chooses between right and wrong that makes it free.."
I got your point which is the reason why I am trying to explain why your position is not consistent with the Christian Doctrine that God and not man judges what is Good and Evil.
To say the conscience is the sole judge totally rejects the role of God's Law which precedes man himself. To say conscience as the sole arbiter also means that Man himself could define what is wrong and what is right which could only mean that Moral Law is absed on Human standards and not God's standards.
Furthermore, there are also choices as good and greater good not limite to good and evil alone (why call it positive or negative). For example, a person may choose to read the Bible in (study doctrine which is a good) or do charity work (which is a higher good) in his spare time. Does the man get penalized if he chose to study doctrine isntead???
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 8, 2006 12:08:32 GMT 10
Hi Linsi,
Yours: "simply because when you say false conscience it refers not to the essence of conscience itself..because conscience is the judge a voice within which corrects us, gives us remorse or guilt upon doing what is wrong.. therefore conscience could never be referesed as false conscience, it is more addressed as the conscience or judge, a voice which dictates us t NOT to do wrong and gives us guilt when we do it.. i agree that when other says it is the voice of God, with its definition it is so..
others may refer to things with false or dead prefixes, but conscience is different..'
Linsi I do not understand when you say that false conscience does not refer to the essence of conscience itself. Conscience as a natural and human faculty of man is its essence itself.
It can be referred to as a "false conscience" when the "human" faculty chooses to apply Moral law based on human and personal standards instead of referring to God's Laws. This is possible because God would not reveal His Laws if conscience is enough - or what you claim to be the sole judge of good and evil.
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Post by linsi on May 8, 2006 12:15:10 GMT 10
Linsi, You said: "Commonly used metaphors refer to the "voice of conscience" or "voice within". which judges between right and wrong, and dictates us to do what is right and gives us remorse or guilt when we do what is wrong you missed these statements kuya banshik conscience is the sole judge, the will chooses between rioght from wrong that makes it free.[/color] This is the predicament. Conscience can never be considered the sole judge whether because if it is the sole judge between Good and Evil, why would there me revelation of God concerning Moral Law. It is God who would be the final judge of Good and Evil, not man. This is a doctrinal and biblical truth. no, it is the id and the ego which choose between right and wrong, the super ego which is the conscience judges and convicts the choices of the id..
I am not talking about the final judgment in the judgment throne of God
i am talking about the conscience and the universal good in our daily lives..you always point it to the christian doctrines how about the non-chistians? they also have the image of God.
again conscience is the judge within our mind because it is the one who dictates us to do what is right, therefore it is the voice within which refers to the only voice dictating us moral good and giving us remorse when we violate that good-it is the voice within which is the voice of God Furthermore, your statement does not respond to the nature of man being a "limited" being which means that man could err. This also means the conscience also falls prey to this limitation and may lead to "false conscience" - a situation which man tries to justify all his actions are mroally good although it is not. where did you get the theory of a false conscience? conscience does not refer to errors, it is the one which convicts and judges our choices..
man's error lies within his id because that is the pleasure principle
for the sake of the readers i will repeat these simple illustrations about the id, ego and superego according to freud..
id--gusto kong matulog ngayon
ego-pero walang lamesa pero pwede may lamesa
super ego- HINDI PWEDE DAHIL MAY KUMAKAIN..
kuya banshik you refer to the id and the ego when man errs, and when man chooses the wrong thing..
i am refering to the conscience the super ego which juges a choice wether it is good or bad, and gives guilt to the id whenever it chose the wrong thing..
God's judgment is different from what i am emphasizing, God's judgment is on the final day, i was talking about the conscience in our daily lives, the voice which dictates us to do good over evil, only the voice of God could do that..there are NO SUCH THING AS FALSE CONSCIENCE, ask the id...
many instances man failed to obey God because they did not listen to their conscience which is the voice of God..
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 8, 2006 12:16:19 GMT 10
Hi Linsi,
Yours: "that is my main point, when i said universal because i refer to people in terms which they can relate to our God.
wether they be pagans or not i wanted to impart that our God made us according ro HIS image and parts of us are intangibles like the conscience..
I am not into christian doctrines i am into the universal concept of a God and when further studies are demanded then the christian God must be seen. "
One can say that "good" is universal because God has enabled Man to discern good and evil through Natural Law. The term universal may apply in saying all men have been created with a conscience.
But one can not just disregard Christian doctrine for the sake of common ground with pagans or atheists because utlimately even Natural law would lead to the existnece of God's Laws.
Furthermore, it is very dangerous to conclude that by applying th universal existence of conscience among men that this faculty alone judges what is good and evil. it is also dangerous to equate that conscience is the same as the "will and intellect".
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Post by linsi on May 8, 2006 12:21:46 GMT 10
please read back kuya banshik
umiikot po tayo...
the id makes the choice the super ego which is the conscience convicts and judges the choice as to wether it is good or bad..
it is our daily lives not the final judgment of God at the judgment throne..
if the conscience is the superego which dictates us to do what is right and good, and gives us remorse and guilt whenever we violate the universal good then that is the voice of God the only source of truth..
read back po
kc paulit ulit ang tanong at sagot.. there is no such thing as false conscience po..and we are not talking about the christian theology here, even pagans have the image of God which is the conscience..
muslims reject our bible and we reject their koran but we all have the same voice which corrects us whenever the id chooses the wrong thing.. it is the conscience the voice of God.
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 8, 2006 12:23:03 GMT 10
Hi Linsi,
I never said that science contradicted the bible. What I am saying is your position in scientific truth is not consistent with your Christian doctrine.
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 8, 2006 12:28:06 GMT 10
Hi Linsi,
Yours: "the arbiter on moral judgment is the conscience within because it is the voice of God.. It is God. "
This is your prediacament Linsi. Whe you claim that conscience is the sole arbiter on moral judgement within is the Voice of God and it is God...why the need for the Word of God? What is the role of God's Laws when man himself has the sole faculty of knowing qwhat is good and evil?
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Post by linsi on May 8, 2006 12:29:36 GMT 10
Hi Linsi, I never said that science contradicted the bible. What I am saying is your position in scientific truth is not consistent with your Christian doctrine.
ahehe hindi po ikaw ang sinasabihan ko, i was just giving an example of other christians..i am not into christian doctrines.. again i donot limit it to christian doctrines this time when i said let your conscience be your guide--
i was into the universal voice of truth, in christians and pagans alike..
the image of God for all of us, which dictates us to do good and gives us the feeling of remorse whenever the id chooses the wrong thing..
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 8, 2006 12:37:59 GMT 10
Hi Linsi,
Kung ang basehan ng "final judgement" ay yung ginawa ng tao habang nasa lupa pa siya, ibig sabihin mahalaga talaga ang nagiging moral actions ng tao. Pero, kapag sinabi nating na sole arbiter ang conscience - hindi na kailangan ang final judgement dahil sabi mo alam na ng tao na mabuti o masama ang kaniyang ginawa.
Hi Ruth,
I agree with you that the Bible has mentioned the conscience of unbelivers which attributes to its universal existence. However, the bible also mentions that "conscience" is not enoguh which compels man to study Christain doctrine and follow God's Laws. In fact, there is also fraternal correction for those who need it.
The danger of leaving everything to conscience may also leave out Christian Doctrine and God's Laws - most especially when one claims conscience alone is the sole judge of good and evil.
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Post by linsi on May 8, 2006 12:46:40 GMT 10
The danger of leaving everything to conscience may also leave out Christian Doctrine and God's Laws - most especially when one claims conscience alone is the sole judge of good and evil.
kuiya banshik
i am not forcing you, but my arguments are clear, freud's psychoanalysis of the id, ego and superego does not contradict the christian measurements you are into..
i was into the universality of the image of God..If God to us is the ultimate, then the voice of God which is the conscience in every man is the ultimate..
why would it be difficult for you? because you missed and rejects the battle between good and evil in every man's mind, the choice of the id and ego..;
it is simple which you prefer not to accept
the conscience is the judge of our daily living which dictates the id to choose that which is right..wqhen the id prevails in doing what is wrong then guilt comes in from the conscience which is the voice of God that is universal..
the conscience is the area where only the good and the righteousness prevail ( which is of God)
there is no false conscience
in our minds there are battles, the one who gives guilt whenever we do wrong is the conscience which is the attribute of God..
finally the final judgment is different.. hindi po naten mapapakealaman yan only God decides although we have the standards in our bible..
the muslims and the christians as well as the pagans have the conscience, the teacher and the judge in our daily lives..
the conscience receives that which is right and good from God..
finally overall the judgment seat of God will judge our destiny..
if you reject my arguments that would be fine but i presented it clearly and will stand by it..l
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 8, 2006 12:49:06 GMT 10
Hi Ruth,
Yours: "papaano kung halimbawa ang pagkakaalam ko Love is good..there is nothing wrong with love di ba? what if you Love the wrong person...is it considered evil?"
This is the reason why man if left alone may not be the best judge. This is also the reason why conscience alone is not sufficient to judge between what is good and evil on some situations.
Love is good. But goodness has some conditions which primary to this is being consistent with God's laws. For example, one can love but not at the expense of violating God's Law on adultery.
Dito magkasundo kami ni Always: "Sometimes, FreeWill and Conscience are almost identical; but in reality, they are entirely different in grounds if base on what kind of morality it is from"
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Post by bangzhik101 on May 8, 2006 12:51:18 GMT 10
eh linsi..the thread is under Christianity kaya siguro parang nalilimitahan sa Christian doctrines at Christian perception of "conscience"... anyways, I agree this is really a good discussion...reminiscent of RF Hay...salamat...may nakaintindi...
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