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Post by leanne. on Apr 11, 2009 4:22:06 GMT 10
Hindi rin ako ekspert dito pero eto napa sali na ako sa usapan. Oist Always di ko alam yung ibang explain mo ha, pero post ako ng mga nakuha kong sagot- isa isa lang ha Jonah said that he went to sheol (the place in the heart of the earth where Jesus went) in Jonah 2:2. Jonah also said, "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God (Jonah 2:6)." Jonah's soul was in the heart of the earth three days and three nights exactly as Christ was in the heart of the earth three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40). The Bible teaches that there is a hollow place in the center of the earth called "sheol" in the Old Testament and "hades" in the New Testament. There is a place of comfort called paradise and a place of torment in sheol or hades separated by a huge gulf (Luke 16:26). All of the dead saved and lost went to hades and sheol prior to the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The saved were waiting for the payment for sin to be made. The lost are still waiting to be cast into hell (Revelation 20:14).Eto pa When Jesus died he went to hades or sheol to the paradise side. When the dying thief crucified with Christ asked to be saved, Jesus replied, "Verily I say unto thee, Today thou shalt be with me in paradise." So we learn that paradise was in the heart of the earth. When Jesus was resurrected He emptied paradise out and took the Old Testament believers to heaven. Since Calvary, the believer at death enters directly into the presence of the Lord. Ayan may mga verses na. Kung ganun ang pangyayari, para sa ken hindi mahirap intindihin to.
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Post by leanne. on Apr 11, 2009 4:34:12 GMT 10
sabi ko bible study pero wala dito yung mga dapat nag tuturo Balik balikan na lang tong copy post ko na naiintindihan ko naman pero sali kayo kse baka punit punitin na naman mga sentence dito. Did Jesus go to hell? ayan.HADES {hah'-dace} (as negative particle) hell, grave name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead later use of this word: the grave, death, hell In Biblical Greek it is associated with Orcus, the infernal regions, a dark and dismal place in the very depths of the earth, the common receptacle of disembodied spirits. Usually Hades is just the abode of the wicked, Lu. 16:23, Rev. 20:13,14; a very uncomfortable place. GEENNA {gheh'-en-nah} hell, hell fire Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction. SHEOL {sheh-ole'} sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead place of no return without praise of God wicked sent there for punishment righteous not abandoned to it scriptures that refer to the location of Hell.
In Ezekiel 26:20 (English-NIV) it says: then I will bring you down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of long ago. I will make you dwell in the earth below, as in ancient ruins, with those who go down to the pit, and you will not return or take your place in the land of the living. Notice that this scripture indicates that some people are dwelling in the Earth below (the pit). Ezekiel 31:16 (English-KJV) I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
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Post by leanne. on Apr 11, 2009 4:36:24 GMT 10
Again Hell (sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit) is referred to as being in the earth.
Luke 16:19-28 (English-NIV) 19 There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire. 25 But Abraham replied, Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us. 27 He answered, `Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.
Remember that these are the recorded words of Jesus himself. Taken literally it suggests that the world of the dead is/was divided into 2 regions. One for the wicked and the other for the righteous. The wicked are in torment in hell and the righteous are/were in peace with Abraham. There was/is a chasm between the 2 places that stopped either side from crossing to the other, yet they could/can still communicate with each other.
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Post by leanne. on Apr 11, 2009 4:39:22 GMT 10
Jesus went to Hades/Hell after He was crucified on the Cross according to the scripture.
Matthew 12:40 (English-NIV) For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
This scripture is quite blatant about the fact that Jesus went to the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights.
If this is the case then how do the words of Jesus spoken to the thief on the cross make sense.
Luke 23:42-43 (English-NIV) 42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
Jesus was in the heart of the earth for approximately 3 days, after that he walked the earth for a short time and then he was lifted up into heaven. So if the reference to Paradise was heaven, then when Jesus said to the thief on the cross "that he would be in paradise with him today" would have to be a contradiction because Jesus was in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights.
Eto Always,
The only way that both scriptures can be explained without contradiction is to say that Paradise was also in the heart of the earth like Hell. Do you find this hard to believe. Doesn't Luke 16:19-28 say the same thing. We just read earlier in those verses that when Lazarus died he went to Abraham's side and the rich man went to hell. In hell the rich man looked up and could see Lazarus being comforted atAbraham'ss side. But neither could cross over to the other side because of a huge chasm.
Ephesians 4:9 (English-NIV) 8 This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men." 9 (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.
The focal point for the word ascended and descended is the earth itself. In verse 9 it says that he descended to the lower earthly regions
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Post by leanne. on Apr 11, 2009 4:42:08 GMT 10
Revelation 1:18 (English-NIV) 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Favorite verse ko ito
These scriptures indicate that Jesus was dead and is now alive, he also has the Keys of death and hell. We can see clearly that Jesus mission to destroy the power that the devil had over death was a success
This scripture says that Jesus preached to disobedient spirits in prison who died before the flood of Noah.
Although I myself do not quite understand the full ramifications of this verse, It does make sense that when Jesus defeated death, he could have proclaimed his victory to the wicked spirits in Hell, in other words he heralded their soon coming judgement, and then of course he set the righteous spirits free to abide in Heaven. It doesn't necessarily mean that Jesus gave the wicked a second chance to repent as the New Testament scriptures are quite blatant about the fact that you can only repent while you are alive.
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Post by leanne. on Apr 11, 2009 4:43:17 GMT 10
1 Peter 4:5-6 (English-NIV) 5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit
This scripture could relate to the above scripture as they are only one chapter apart ie Jesus preached to the dead. This scripture also seems to say that the Gospel was preached to the dead and they were given a chance at life, but it can also be interpreted to say that the disobedient who are dead actually heard the gospel when they were alive, and the reference to the dead is to say that they were dead at the time of the scripture, ie now dead, but were actually alive when they heard the gospel. I have added these 2 verses as they relate to Jesus death and journey to the world of the dead, but I do repeat the statement I made earlier, and that is that I do not understand the full ramifications of these 2 verses.
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Post by leanne. on Apr 11, 2009 4:45:21 GMT 10
Matthew 27:50 - 52 (English-KJV): 50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
After Jesus died many of the dead saints arose and walked the earth and appeared to many. This seems to suggest that Jesus freed the dead saints from a sleep, so he probably went to the place of the dead and set them free. These saints would have been in Paradise, see Luke 16:19-28 (quoted earlier). Remember that Jesus also rose from the dead and walked the earth before being taken up into Heaven. These saints of old that walked the earth probably were raised to heaven as well. There is no suggestion in the Bible that these saints continued to live amongst mankind.
The fact that the dead rose at the same time as Jesus resurrection is a fulfillment of what Jesus said would happen in John 5:28-29 (English-NIV)
28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.
Also 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (English-NIV) 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.
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Post by leanne. on Apr 11, 2009 4:47:27 GMT 10
Notice that the dead rise first, and at some stage all those believers who are still living will join the dead to meet the Lord. Jesus victory over death has enabled the saints who have died to by pass Hades and go to Heaven as he did, this was a result of the victory over the devil; who had the power of death. Jesus took the keys of death and hell from him, as we read earlier Revelation 1:18. Today when the righteous die, they go straight to heaven, but the wicked remain in the grave/hell until the great day of judgement. See Revelation 20:11-14 (English-NIV)
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
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Post by leanne. on Apr 11, 2009 4:49:15 GMT 10
PS. Did you know that Hell is not forever. This is because God is going to destroy the Heavens and Earth with fire after the Millennium. If he destroys the earth and Hell is inside the earth then Hell as a dwelling place will also be destroyed. Checkout the 3 scriptures below that confirm this. 2 Peter 3:7 (English-NIV) By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. Revelation 21:1 (English-NIV) Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. Revelation 20:14 (English-KJV) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. ayan, bahala na kayo diyan, natapos na ang copy en paste en post ko pero binasa ko talaga yan at sa wakas naka bible study din ako kahit wala yung iba hanggang sa muli
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Post by Always on Apr 11, 2009 9:22:29 GMT 10
Leanne: "Hindi rin ako ekspert dito pero eto napa sali na ako sa usapan. Oist Always di ko alam yung ibang explain mo ha, pero post ako ng mga nakuha kong sagot- isa isa lang ha "
Hello Leanne! It is nice to know na pumapasyal ka din sa Heaven Net for Bible Study. The article is so well written at halos nai[post na din dito ang mga verses except sa theme that Jesus went to hell na ang relevancy nito ay kelangan ngaun lang. If I'm not mistaken one of the last verses I posted here was Revelation 20:14.
And if you have been reading my post ay hindi niyo maikakaila that I am not denying the existence of Hell. Yes, there is a place called hell but at what state? It only exists currently in its metaphysical sense or in a reality beyond what is perceptible to our senses. Ngayon sa palagay niyo ba ay kinulwestiyon ko ang existence of God dahil halos pareho lang sila nito. Malaki ang pagkakaiba ng kanilang conventional imagery.
Una, ang Hell ay iisang lugar lamang. (Designated Order Pangalawa, ang Diyos ay kung saan saan. (OmniPresent)
One of my querries is Liberte's position that when unbelievers die, they go straight to Hades to which Revelation 20:13 states to be untrue kasi nga meron din masasama o hindi naniwala sa Diyos na hindi dumideretso sa impierno dahil nga ang iba ay nasa dagat. And that is an unquestionable fact na nakasulat sa Bible.
Therefore, there is no need to retort the state of hell but ...
Ngayon ang tanong ko kay Liberte, kay MrExDobal at ngayon ay sau: Ano ang Logic kung baket naglagay ng paradise ang Diyos sa impiyerno?
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Post by Always on Apr 11, 2009 21:05:49 GMT 10
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Post by delta on Apr 11, 2009 23:35:32 GMT 10
Pasali din kahit pa konte. Alam nyo mag agri to siagri na lang kayo. Kung yung kabila ayaw maniwalang parable yung pinag uusapan at yung kabila ay naniniwalang parable naman yun, maghiwalay na lang kayo dun. Kung doon sa isa ay wala pang hell ngayon at yung kabila ay mayron na maghiwalay din kayo dun dahil may mga preweba naman na nakalagay dito pero hindi pa rin magkatugma kaya parang sa ches tabla na lang. Happy Easter
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Post by Always on Apr 11, 2009 23:36:09 GMT 10
MrExdobal: "Yan ang isa pang mahirap, may mga tao na akala nila mataas na ang hawak hawak nilang kaalaman kasama ang agham at lohika, Kung babanggitin natin si Nicodemus Mr Always isa siya sa pinaka mahusay at paham na guro sa Israel pero hindi niya maintindihan ang payak na kahulugan ng kaligtasan- hindi kaya pumapatak ka sa ganito? Tanong lang " MrExdobal, that would depend on how one defines intellgence Mabuti naman at binanggit mo si Nicodemus sa usapin at if gusto mo eh isama na din natin ang mga Pharisees na sila ang strikto sa pag-obserba ng mga written laws; but kapag ihahambing natin sila sa kaalaman ni Kristo ay parang nawawala sila. Alam niyo ba kung baket?
MrExdobal, we must understand the quality that we should have the ability to use such intelligence. Take the three(3) of us for example, you, Liberte, and I have the same tool in subscribing to the faith in God - the Holy Bible. Sometimes, others are just blind by making the story of the Rich Man & Lazarus a literal form due to misconception of the proper noun instead of understanding it as a parabolic in nature. It is already wrong to make that as an excuse in order to deliberately pass the belief that wicked people go directly to Hades when they die as true and correct.
This is like saying that Jesus Christ lied to us when he attested that unbelievers who died do NOT actually go to Hades but stay onto their graves. Don't be surprised because the verse is in the future tense.
John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, John 5:29 and will come forth; those who did the good {deeds} to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil {deeds} to a resurrection of judgment.
Hayan maliwanag pa sa full-moon ang nakasulat sa Bibliya at dito tinutukoy ni Jesus ang First Resurrection na para sa mga believers samantala ang mga wicked ay maghihintay pa din mula sa kanilang kinalalagyan. At saan ito ayon kay Kristo?
I now ask you, did Jesus mention the wickeds go directly to Hades when they die? Again, Jesus uttered the verses in future tense of what the future hold just like the parable involving Lazarus as the both are related to the Books of Revelation Chapter 20.
Ito po ay sagot laang na talaga namang totoo kung maniwala ka sa salita ng Diyos if ito ba ay tunay at hindi sa kung ano anong interpretasyon kasi ang ginagamit ko po ay ang tinatawag na emotional intelligence kung saan ang isang tao ay kailangang maging emotionally aware kahit sa maliliit na bagay.
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Post by Always on Apr 19, 2009 23:31:18 GMT 10
Hello po sa inyo!
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Post by leanne. on Apr 22, 2009 14:52:18 GMT 10
John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, John 5:29 and will come forth; those who did the good {deeds} to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil {deeds} to a resurrection of judgment.
Hayan maliwanag pa sa full-moon ang nakasulat sa Bibliya at dito tinutukoy ni Jesus ang First Resurrection na para sa mga believers samantala ang mga wicked ay maghihintay pa din mula sa kanilang kinalalagyan. At saan ito ayon kay Kristo?
I now ask you, did Jesus mention the wickeds go directly to Hades when they die? Again, Jesus uttered the verses in future tense of what the future hold just like the parable involving Lazarus as the both are related to the Books of Revelation Chapter 20.
[/color][/b][/quote] Always ang kulets yung mag ra rise sa tomb katawan nga, ang tanong nung mamatay yung mga katawan na yun saan dumerecho kaluluwa eh. syempre yung mga namatay sa dagat ang katawan nila nandun lang.
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Post by leanne. on Apr 22, 2009 15:14:36 GMT 10
Yung Book of Revelations future tense, pero nung panahon ni Jesus sa lupa nag exist ang sheol at Abraham's bosom
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Post by Always on Apr 22, 2009 22:18:54 GMT 10
Always ang kulets yung mag ra rise sa tomb katawan nga, ang tanong nung mamatay yung mga katawan na yun saan dumerecho kaluluwa eh. syempre yung mga namatay sa dagat ang katawan nila nandun lang.
Ate Leanne, nililigaw mo lang ang sarili mo kaya ka nalilito eh. Hindi naman katawan ng tao ang iluluwa ng dagat eh para sa Lake of Fire na tinukoy sa Libro ng Rebelasyon. Dahl kung katawan eh paano pa ito parurusahan ng everlasting punishment eh di natunay kaagad. Dibah? At paano na lang iyon mga namatay nung isang libong taon na ang nakakaraan eh di naagnas na din ang mga katawan ng mga iyon. Dibah? Maliwanag ang salita ng Diyos na ang Hell ay ginawa lamang para kay Lucifer at sa kanyang mga anghel at ang Lake of Fire ay para sa kanila at sa mga tao. Maliwanag din ang salita ni Jesus Christ ang tungkol sa mga patay na kalamo'y nagsitulog laang at kanyang gigisingin sa kanilang pagkatulog at lalong maliwanag ang sabi Niya na ang katawan ng tao ay hindi pwede sa paraiso dahil nakasulat din na ang kaluluwa natin ay mababalutan ng isang misteryo para lang ang mga faithfuls ay makarating sa Heaven.
Di mo ba nakikita ang logic nito? Tingnan mo ang mga astronauts, buhay pa sila pero kailangan nila ng mga space suits para lang makahinga sa outer space. So paano pa kaya ang katawan ng namatay na? Tulad ng sa itaas ay ito ay isang misteryo na bubuhayin muli para makapiling si Kristo samantala ang mga naiwan sa kanilang (tomb) kinalalagyan ay maghihintay pa ng isang libong tao para sa paghuhukom habang ang mga ito ay nasakay-kamatayan(Death). Nakita mo ba na hindi sinabi ni Kristo na maghihintay sila(ang mga namatay na wicked) sa impierno - dibah?
Dahil kung nasa impiyerno ang mga wicked na mga tao namatay ay hindi dapat sinabi ni Kristo ang salitang "Tomb" kundi "Hell" dapat. Dibah maliwanag? At tulad na din ng point ko sa itaas ay dapat sinabi ni Kristo ay maghihintay ang mga wicked ng isang libong taon sa Hell pero hindi eh. Maliwanag na Tomb ang binanggit Niya at doon sila maghihintay. Dibah dbah?
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At ano ang iluluwal?
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead (mga namatay sa dagat) who were in it, Death (mga wicked na hawak ni kamatayan) and Hades (mga Fallen Ones) gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
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O dibah unang nagkasala ang mga anghel kaya sila muna ang ihahagis sa Lake of Fire!
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
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at pagkatapos ay iyon ng mga wicked na tao ang isusunod na ihahagis sa Lake of Fire!
Revelation 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
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Ang liwanag ha! Pero meron akong itatanong kaso baka malito ka ulet eh. Paano na iyong mga nai-cremate na mga masasama eh saan sila iluluwal?
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Post by leanne. on Apr 22, 2009 22:44:29 GMT 10
Ate Leanne, nililigaw mo lang ang sarili mo kaya ka nalilito eh. Hindi naman katawan ng tao ang iluluwa ng dagat eh para sa Lake of Fire na tinukoy sa Libro ng Rebelasyon. Dahl kung katawan eh paano pa ito parurusahan ng everlasting punishment eh di natunay kaagad. Dibah? At paano na lang iyon mga namatay nung isang libong taon na ang nakakaraan eh di naagnas na din ang mga katawan ng mga iyon. Dibah? Ngeeeeeee Always, body and spirit ang tatapon sa lake of fire wahhhh kaya nga may weeping ang gnashing of teeth huhuhu! syempre yung pagbangon ng mga patay may katawan alangang kaluluwa lang ang bumangon ;D
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Post by Always on Apr 23, 2009 3:09:09 GMT 10
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Post by linsi on Apr 23, 2009 4:45:09 GMT 10
prrrrrrsttttttt.... wait!!! ;D
questions lang- in (1 Corinthians 15:42). It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body." When we enter into heaven, it will be with imperishable or incorruptible bodies.
therefore- we will have a body. Let us now study what kind of body is this. This suggests a body with greatly increased capabilities. If it is a spiritual body-then try to imagine that we will share in the glory of what Christ has done and has been-
Remember in a twinkiling of an eye- we shall all be changed We are therefore raised imperishable, and those who are alive are simply changed "in a twinkling of an eye" (cf. Romans 2:6,7; 1 Peter 1:4).
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Post by linsi on Apr 23, 2009 4:50:42 GMT 10
What is that kind of body? Is it a spirit? because flesh and blood cannot enter heaven?
Cge- aralin
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed." (1 Corinthians 15:50-52).
Kung mere spirit lang ito why will it be changed? for what? kung walang changes e di spirit to spirit lang-from perishable to imperishable-
but spirits are immortals wether in this life or after life- but why does the bible say- we shall all be changed?
Dito muna tayo hane?
migyyyyyyyyyyyy, jirooooooooo. W-A-G M-A-T-A-K-O-T! MAKIBAKA
itong si leanne oo
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Post by linsi on Apr 23, 2009 4:57:43 GMT 10
something more-
surely flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God totoo po yan but then let us look at one argument
God's spiritual children, the redeemed of the ages who have lived by faith, will rise to meet the Lord in the air clothed in changed bodies.
chaaaanged booooodies- changed bodies.
No longer flesh and blood, but something far superior in nature and glory. The dead will be changed and rise, followed by those who are alive at Christ's coming (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17).
Our spirits will be dressed in appropriate attire when we enter into eternity.
What will we look like? We do not know, but we do know we will share Jesus' glory; we'll be like Him (1 John 3:2).
Anong klaseng body ito- like a silouhette? spirit? it wouldn't be as it was changed! others may say spiritual body therefore spirit! but there is something when Apostle Paul said: we shall all be changed! try to read commentaries mga ka p7 try lang po- dito muna iikot ang arguments ha? at malawak pong usapin ito-
later na yung kung ano- ano para may matumbok tayo at hindi mahilo ang mga napapadaang nagbabasa ,
Ok-- fire
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Post by linsi on Apr 23, 2009 5:05:08 GMT 10
Dahl kung katawan eh paano pa ito parurusahan ng everlasting punishment eh di natunay kaagad. Dibah? At paano na lang iyon mga namatay nung isang libong taon na ang nakakaraan eh di naagnas na din ang mga katawan ng mga iyon. Dibah?
when we talk of logic the answer is yes! but when we talk about God's power nothing is impossible- he made the universe and everything in it. Everything is possible-
Ok punta tayo dun sa body ha?
game-
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Post by mrExdobal on Apr 23, 2009 11:38:33 GMT 10
Dahl kung katawan eh paano pa ito parurusahan ng everlasting punishment eh di natunay kaagad. Dibah? At paano na lang iyon mga namatay nung isang libong taon na ang nakakaraan eh di naagnas na din ang mga katawan ng mga iyon. Dibah?
when we talk of logic the answer is yes! but when we talk about God's power nothing is impossible- he made the universe and everything in it. Everything is possible-
Ok punta tayo dun sa body ha?
game-
Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.Dagdag aralin.
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Post by mrExdobal on Apr 23, 2009 12:10:24 GMT 10
Rev 20:11-15 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” The 2nd resurrection is for unbelievers only. Rev. 20:5-6 “But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power.” First Resurrection, it is for believers only. There is still another resurrection separated by at least 1,000 years. All unbelievers from when time began are resurrected put back in their bodies and then judged according to their works and put in the final place- the lake of fire in which they will suffer in both their soul and body forever and ever. Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell”Dagdag aaralin
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Post by Always on Apr 23, 2009 18:22:41 GMT 10
Rev 20:11-15 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” The 2nd resurrection is for unbelievers only. Rev. 20:5-6 “But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power.” First Resurrection, it is for believers only. There is still another resurrection separated by at least 1,000 years. All unbelievers from when time began are resurrected put back in their bodies and then judged according to their works and put in the final place- the lake of fire in which they will suffer in both their soul and body forever and ever. Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” Dagdag aaralin
Wala sa anumang nakasulat sa Bibliya na ang body ng tao ay mapa-punish ng forever & ever; maari pa siguro ang spiritu. Dahil ang body ay namatay na nga sa First Death o Physical Death na mai-experience by both the wicked & believers pero ang First Resurrection ay ukol lamang sa mga faithfuls. Samantala naman ang Second Resurretion ay ukol naman sa mga wicked tulad sa mga nauna ko ng mga posts na naulet na lamang.
At tulad na din sa mga sinabi ko sa mga naunang posts: May iniwan clue ang First Resurrection na hindi na kailangan ang katawan(body) sa unang pagkabuhay dahil mapapalitan o magbabago ito from a mortal vessel into an immortal one kung saan mananatili ang ginising na mga soul ng mga believers na magiging imortal din. Kaya naman meron akong ehemplo tungkol sa mga astronauts dahil ang mga faithfuls ay makakaranas ng ganitong pagbabago. At ito ay nasa Bibliya na sinabi mismo ni Jesus kung ano ang mangyayari sa mga believers na namatay:
1Cr 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 1Cr 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1Cr 15:53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.1Cr 15:54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
Hayan maliwanag pa sa araw iyan ha na mismong si Kristo na ang nagsabi na lahat ng mga believers ay magbabago at hindi na nila kailangan ang luma nilang katawan dahil nga magpapalit ito. Sa palagay mo baket hindi binanggit ang mga wicked at ano nang mangyayari sa kanilang katawan? Tulad din ng sinabi ko sa mga nauna kong posts na tiyak ay nakaligtaan basahin o ayaw pagtiyagahang aralin ay maaagnas dahil nga sa lupa nagmula at sa lupa din babalik. At tulad ng nakasulat ulet sa Bibliya at hindi basta basta salita lamang o interpretasyon ay ganito:
Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."
Ano ang sabi kapag namatay na ang tao?
Psalm 104:29 You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.
Maliwanag ulet iyan na ang katawan na tao ay meron expiration mismo dahil nga ito ay maaagnas at babalik sa lupa kaya logical ang sinabi mismo ni Kristo na ang katawan ay magbabago at mapapalitan at ito ay ukol sa mga believers samantala ay nilinaw din niya mismo ang tungkol naman sa mga unbelievers na magpapatuloy sa kanilang pagtulog at paghihintay habang ang katawan nila ay babalik mismo sa lupa kung saan siya nagmula.
Dahil mismong ang Diyos nga ang nakakaalam na dapat din natin malaman:
Psalm 103:14 For He Himself knows our frame; He is mindful that we are {but} dust
Iyan ang dapat aralin bago pag-isipan ang iba pa na wala namang sumasapat ng mga bersikulo na mula sa Bibliya at ito pa ang isa bago ko ito itutuloy mamaya.
At ito pa:
Ecc 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. [/color] [/b]
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Post by Always on Apr 24, 2009 11:47:58 GMT 10
prrrrrrsttttttt.... wait!!! ;D
questions lang- in (1 Corinthians 15:42). It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body." When we enter into heaven, it will be with imperishable or incorruptible bodies.
therefore- we will have a body. Let us now study what kind of body is this. This suggests a body with greatly increased capabilities. If it is a spiritual body-then try to imagine that we will share in the glory of what Christ has done and has been-
Remember in a twinkiling of an eye- we shall all be changed We are therefore raised imperishable, and those who are alive are simply changed "in a twinkling of an eye" (cf. Romans 2:6,7; 1 Peter 1:4).
Meron na akong nai-post sa ibang topic(hahanapin ko kong saan muna) about our body will be replaced by a different vessels. it is a sort of science fiction pero our new body must be attuned to a different frequency para maka-enter tayo sa kingdom. But we have to understand first the logic of the Bible and what God said through man. Kaya nga may law ang God about the First Resurrection dahil nga natural ang Physical Death ng tao at sinabi Niya ito kela Adam & Eve na kapag kinain nila ang prutas ay tiyak na mamamatay sila. Dibah? Namatay si Adam & Eve ng "Isang Araw" ng Diyos.
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Post by linsi on Apr 26, 2009 0:05:56 GMT 10
haaaay
hehehe...........
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Post by Always on Apr 26, 2009 14:19:13 GMT 10
NAKARAAN: Napag-usapan natin ang tungkol sa mga patay at kung ano ang mangyayari sa katawan nila. At ayon sa salita ng Diyos ay magbabalik sila sa lupa kung saan sila nagmula; samakatuwid ang kaluluwa lang nila ang itatapon sa Lake of Fire.
NGAYON: Ang pag-aaralin natin Sunday School ay ang verse na nakasulat sa Libro ni Matthew na ipinost din sa taas ni Bro. MrExdobal. Okay ba LeAnne, parang pastol na ba me?
Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell”
Tulad ng binanggit ko na noon una ang tungkol sa cancer na may iba-ibang klase at marami din degree of stages, ang hell na tinutukoy sa Libro ni Mateo ay ang Lake of Fire. Teka eh di may katawan nga at mali ang sinabi ko noong una na hindi kaluluwa lamang? Hmmmnn
Bago ko sasagutin iyan mga KApuso, mga KApamilya, at mga KApatid ay magre-replay muna tayo ng kaunti kung ano na ang natutunan natin tungkol sa mga patay... ano na nga ba yon
First Death- Faithfuls(Body & Soul)
- Wicked(Body & Soul)
- Physical Death (Natural Death)
Natural Bodies decay and return to the ground while their souls go to sleep waiting for separate resurrections
[/b] First Resurrection- Rewards:
* Heavenly Bodies * Kingdom of God & * Eternal Life Second Resurrection, Second Death- Punishments:
* Spiritual Death (Eternal Death) * Lake of Fire Baka nagtatanong kayo na nasaan na ang sagot sa Matthew 10:28? Kung hindi pa ninyo napapansin ang mga nauna kong maliwanag ay tungkol lamang sa mga taong namatay na. Natatandaan pa ba ninyo na sa pagbablik ni Kristo na ang sabi niya na ang una niyang aasikasuhin ay ang mga namatay na naging faithful sa kanya? Palagay ninyo ano ang ibig sabihin nun? Ang dahilan ay isang logic sa pagsamasama ng mga verses sa Bibliya at iisa lang ang sagot - may mga tao kasing buhay pa sa muling pagbabalik ni Kristo. Natatandaan pa ba ninyo na magkikita-kitakitz sila sa mga ulap(clouds)?
O di bah may mga buhay pa na masasama at mabubuti pagdating ng paghuhukom kung kaya ang mga wicked ay mahahatulan ng diretso sa pamamagitan ng "apoy" na magmumula sa Diyos sa langet para lamunin sila (Revelation 20:9 ) at ang "hellish fire" na ito na lalamun sa kanila ay siya din ang magiging "lake of fire" kasi nalamon na nga sila nito kasama si Satan at ang mga propeta niya (Revelation 20:10 ).
Kaya hayan po ang kasagutan sa Mateo 10:28 na hindi naman talaga ukol sa mga namatay na kundi sa mga dadatnan ni Kristo na mga buhay pa na nagkasala.
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Post by Always on Apr 28, 2009 14:50:08 GMT 10
Hello There
One must understand that in order to know God, we must know even the smallest portion of His science, we must not delve ourselves too deep into "some" of the old-school teachings of our ministers, priests, elders et al. to whatever terms they use until now as supernatural, miracle or mystery. The special revelation of God is not only about the laws, nature, characteristics of God for us to define and teach others or about our everyday needs for salvation but it is also about God's miracles as to how they are no longer mysteries through our proof of knowledge in science.
The only thing we can do for now in our lifetime is to explain things as close as possible how on they came to exist. Theories upon theories until we have the right technology to prove what is the right one to follow and teach others. Religions used to teach that our planet is the center of the universe; and whoever disregarded such teachings were persecuted until one day it changed. My point to the matter is, if we christians keep on following this track, we are more suscptible to attacks from different angles of skepticism. How can we be able to defend ourselves from an inquiring mind if we only answer; "Oh it's God's miracle!" or "That's how the supernatural works!"
Your children or my future children will have access to information in terms of high-end technology--computer, and as they say in the tenor of the spiderman - "Great Knowledge comes Great Game Play!". It is like when you're playing any kind of sports that when you know the game, there is a high percentage that you can easily defend your position and take your offensive knowledge to do the winning for you.
What now if I were to ask you about the fire from Heaven(20:9) and the Lake of Fire(20:10) as mentioned in the Book of Revelation, what would be your immediate answer - it is written?; supernatural? miracle? Those answers are the reason why skeptics do not believe in a god; but, if you give them a logical answer with the help of technological advancement of today, then, perhaps they'll think and sleep on it. The fire from heaven is easy to explain, just like what happened to the dinosaurs 65 millions years ago. The only difference is how could there be a lake of fire after the hellish fire from heaven?
Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
From above verses, every christians must realize that the two events are instantaneous or simultaneous to after the other. Hmmmmnn, Supernatural? Here, even though the events would happen in the future, God's science is once again revealed for us in order to grasp such events logically. And as I have previously posted, the Fire from God that will devour the wicked is the same as the Lake of Fire due to tranformation or transfiguration, which can easily refer to as different stages of a cancer (or as referred to our study about the lost of Art of Alkemia.)
Illustration 1: END OF THE WORLD: Hellish Fire from Heaven becoming the Lake of Fire!
What you see is a molten fire from Heaven colliding with our planet; and as it engulfs(devours) the planet melting every thing in its path, the Lake of Fire will instantaneously appear due to transfiguration of the collding blast as seen starting from [/color] 2:25 up to 3:13 of the visual illustration and again its enormosity in 3:21. WHAT A MAGNIFICENT SIGHT, isn't it! And as you watch it through the illustration as the planet is originally intended ([/b]re: AXIOM of CREATION ) to be Hell for the Fallen Ones, you'll come to realize that the Earth ends also as hell but with a higher degree - the Lake of Fire.
to continue ...
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