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Post by delta on Nov 21, 2006 15:35:44 GMT 10
we all have choice rivers maniwala ka sa akin..i am born of a family..na poorest of the poor..it even came to a point na nagtinda ng basahan sa kalsada ang tatay ko para lang me makain kami sa pasko. wala kaming ibang choice at that time but to survive on tuyo ..kahit na paskong pasko. naiyak pa tatay ko nung me nagaabot sa kanya ng Christmas package..yung nagabot ay isang pamilya nakasaya sa Jeep. Christmas package na ito consists of keso de bola, mga delata pang salad. cake.tinapay..biglang meron kami pagsasaluhan sa bisperas ng Pasko. Kung pinili ng tatay ko na magmukmok sa bahay imbes na magtinda ng basahan at kumita ng 15 pesos isang araw....ano kaya mangyayari? Sad pero nakaka inspirasyon, pero hindi lahat ng anak ay gaya mo, na nakaahon sa kahirapan.Yung iba malas talaga na ang mga anak e bobo o di kaya kasama na mga kriminal kaya dumami ang mga mahihirap. at tumaas ang krimen. Yan ang pinagtataka ko. Yun namang mga mayayaman ginagamit ang mga mahihirap at bobo para sa sindikato nila. Yan din ang pinagtataka ko.
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Post by delta on Nov 21, 2006 15:38:25 GMT 10
why does God allow evil... Hindi ako masyado maalam sa Bible eh...but from what I read..from the book of Genesis...it all started sa garden of eden...nagkasala si Eve kasi nagpatukso sya kay Satan...at naiwala nila yung pagiging sakdal nila ni Adan... I guess...yung evil...na para sa akin ay paghihirap, kasamaan..kabuktutan sa mundo...ay kanyang pinahihintulutan...hindi bilang isang pagsubok...sa kanyang nilalang kundi isang..hamon mismo kay Satan....na hindi nya kayang ilayo sa Diyos kung ano ang nilikha nya...na ang tao...patuloy mang pahirapan at tuksuhin ng Diyablo...ay mananatiling tapat sa Diyos... Palagay ko naman si satan ang naghahamon at kadalasan panalo siya dahil mas madami ang masasama kesa sa mabubuti.
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Post by supremo on Nov 24, 2006 3:28:25 GMT 10
Nice topic and i really have a nice time reading every response ng mga ka p7 natin dito.
Let me post my own personal opinion dito sa tanong na ito...Why does God allow evil? Balik tayo sa genesis where it all begun. Nilikha ng diyos ang mundo na perpekto. Ni walang bahid na anumang kamalian. Akoy naniniwala din na ang "Tree of knowledge of good and evil" ay hindi din masama kaya nandun din yun. Meron itong gamit kaya andito during creation, but only forbidden. Actually kung iisipin nating maigi, the two trees (Tree of life and Tree of knowledge of good and evil), are in the very essence ng Diyos. The Tree of life signify God as an immortal being and the tree of knowledge of good and evil signify his all knowing character. Having a knowledge of good and evil doesn't make God evil!!, coz He's God. And God cannot be tempted by evil. God's nature is good.
Yes, we are created in the image of God. But the only difference is that we are not God. We are only a created being. Therefore man (as a created being) having that knowledge (knowledge of good and evil) will either make him good or make him evil. So maybe that's the reason why god decide to forbade it na kainin ng tao. But that tree must be included during creation coz it has it's used. Kamukha ng knife.Man created knife for the purpose of cutting and use for cooking but pinagbabawal natin sa mga bata dahil baka makasugat sila o kaya pinagbabawal dalhin sa eroplano o isang establishment kasi baka gamitin weapon of death etc..etc.
One possible reason why that tree is there is because satan is still active during that time and how can we know satan work if we don't have that knowledge?? If you read the book of revelation, esp the chapters that refers to new heaven and new earth, yung tree of life na lang ang nandun, wala na ang tree of knowledge of good and evil coz satan is now in the lake of fire forever and it has no used at all. Double jeopardy ang nangyari kay satan. Akala nya, he can get even with God by tempting man to disobey God to eat that tree, yet that same predicament where he put man will also reveal to man his dirty work!!! And to saved man from their mistake, God sent his son to save us by giving this prophecy:
Gen 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
God gave us two things for us to know Him and satan's work since we chose to have that knowledge (good and evil)
1. Written law in:
a. Stone and Tablet (Exod 24:12 etc...) b. Heart (Rom 2:15)
Since the law is a curse (Gal 3:10), God gave the second:
2. His Son (Gal 3:13)
This is my own personal view and not the view of the church where i belong.
Now, to answer the query:
Why does God allow evil???......I know you all know the answer.......
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Post by tinkerbelle on Nov 25, 2006 3:04:40 GMT 10
why does God allow evil... Hindi ako masyado maalam sa Bible eh...but from what I read..from the book of Genesis...it all started sa garden of eden...nagkasala si Eve kasi nagpatukso sya kay Satan...at naiwala nila yung pagiging sakdal nila ni Adan... I guess...yung evil...na para sa akin ay paghihirap, kasamaan..kabuktutan sa mundo...ay kanyang pinahihintulutan...hindi bilang isang pagsubok...sa kanyang nilalang kundi isang..hamon mismo kay Satan....na hindi nya kayang ilayo sa Diyos kung ano ang nilikha nya...na ang tao...patuloy mang pahirapan at tuksuhin ng Diyablo...ay mananatiling tapat sa Diyos... Palagay ko naman si satan ang naghahamon at kadalasan panalo siya dahil mas madami ang masasama kesa sa mabubuti. Rivers:
yep! I agree! si Satan nga po ang naghahamon...noon pa since the beginning...sa book of Genesis nung tinukso nya si Eve...ano bang sinabi nya....? hindi ba ang sabi nya kay Eve...hindi totoong mamamtay ang tao pag kumain ng bunga ng pungongkahoy na ipinagbabawal ng Diyos na kainin nila...
Sa moment na yon...tahasan na nyang sinansala ang pagka soberano ng Diyos...i mean...gusto nyang ipakita na ang Diyos ang sinungaling...kaya nga sya nasabihan na " Satanas na Diyablo" diba...kasi nga ibig sabihin non..."sinungaling"
At gaya ng sinabi ni Supremo...nilikha ng Diyos ng perpekto..."sakdal" malinis....walang bahid ng kasalanan...pero may karapatran tayong mag isip...at gumawa ng ayon sa ating gusto...although God gave us distinct rules...para sundin...hindi naman ibig sabihin non..na para na tayong robots...na sunud sunuran sa lahat ng kanyanbg utos...
Pinaniwala ng Diyablo si Eve...and later on...nagkasala na sila ni Adan...at ano ang resulta...? nawala ang kanilang kasakdalan...at sila ay nahatulang mamatay...dahil napakahalagang bagay ang naiwala nila ng sila ay magkasala...mula sa pagiging sakdal...sila ay naging makasalanan....
Ang minana nating kasalanan...mula kina Adan at Eva...ang bunga ay kamatayan....pero alam naman nating lahat na hindi natatapos dun lang...dahil kaya nga binigay ng Diyos si Kristo....para sa atin....ay para maibalik sa tao ang pagiging sakdal...pero napakahirap non...dahil ang tao...mahina..at marami nga sa atin...mas nagpapatukso..kesa...lumaban....
Ang hamon ni Satanas...lahat tayo kaya nyang italikod sa Diyos...parang gaya ni Job...ano bang hiling ni Satanas sa Diyos...? hindi ba't hiniling nyang payagan sya ng Diyos...na pahirapan si Job...ngunit sinabi sa kayna ng Diyos...."gawin mo ang nais mong gawin sa kanya...wag mo lamang syang papatayin"
And what happend? nagpatukso ba si Job? nagpatalo ba sya...sa lahat ng kasamaan at kahirapan na ibinigay sa kanya ni Satanas...? Hindi... nakasulat yan sa book fo Job...hindi ba..?
So, ano ba ang naisaad dito...? na hindi sa Diyos galing ang paghihirap at kabuktutan sa mundong it ng sanlibutan...kundi lahat yon ay pakana lang ng Diyablo...mula sa umpisa...gusto nyang italikod ang tao mula sa Diyos...gawing sinungaling ang Diyos..at tuluyan nyang makuha ang pagsamba ng tao...na matagal na niyang kinaiinggitan mula sa Diyos...
Finally, sa tagumpay NI Job...naitaas nya ang pangalan ng Diyos...at napatunayan nya mismo kay Satanas...na ang tao..malayo man sa pagiging sakdal...ay may choice na gawin ang dapat at tama ayon sa turo ng Diyos...na dikta ng pagmamahal at pananampalataya sa Kanya...
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Post by delta on Nov 27, 2006 15:33:08 GMT 10
Ang dami ng sagot pero mukhang nakakalitong unawain, dahil ang topic ay "Why does God allow Evil" baka naman pwedeng iksian at linawan dahil nga mas laganap ang kasamaan at maraming namamatay, at pinapatay na parang natural na lamang.
Parang pinabayaan na lamang ang mundo di ba yan ang pinag uusapan dito?
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Post by tinkerbelle on Nov 28, 2006 3:04:05 GMT 10
Rivers... ok regardless of my explanation...at walang mga sipi sa bible na nagpapa unawa ng tungkol dyan...kung pinahihintulutan nga ng Diyos ang kasamaan sa mundo...how would you react about this situation...? sisihin mo ba ang Diyos??? kung bakit umiral ang kasamaan s amundong ito...? kung bakit may paghihirap at kamatayan sa mundo...?? ano bang ibubunga ng gayon sa atin..?? meron kaya...?? o mas makakabubuting unawain kung saan galing yang kasamaan? kung bakit at kung paano sya umiral... at paano yan iiwasan....?
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Post by supremo on Nov 28, 2006 4:18:31 GMT 10
Ang dami ng sagot pero mukhang nakakalitong unawain, dahil ang topic ay "Why does God allow Evil" baka naman pwedeng iksian at linawan dahil nga mas laganap ang kasamaan at maraming namamatay, at pinapatay na parang natural na lamang. Parang pinabayaan na lamang ang mundo di ba yan ang pinag uusapan dito? Good point rivers and to answer your question, let me question you first if you don't mind. Answer honestly the following question na i-post ko dito in the sense na kunwari you are god. Imagine your'e bruce the almighty (have you seen that movie???) 1. If youre god, then how will you address the fallen state of man without affecting freewill?? 2. Will you eradicate evil instantly so that only good will exist?? Remember this, the fallen state of man is not the fault of God, but the fault of man dahil pinili nya ito.
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Post by rafael on Nov 29, 2006 1:40:47 GMT 10
If man was created perfect he shouldn't have had a fallen state. Failure should not precede perfection
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Post by Always on Dec 17, 2006 23:34:02 GMT 10
But man was not created perfect; please show us the verse in the Bible that it was said so
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Post by delta on Dec 20, 2006 17:10:02 GMT 10
Tatanungin ko ulit, bakit yung mabubuting tao at nagpapakabuti ay lalong nahihirapan, at yung masasama ang magaan gumawa ng lalong higit na kasamaan, marami sa kanila ang mayaman, masarap ang buhay at halos lahat ng kailangan ay kaya nilang makamit.
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Post by delta on Dec 20, 2006 17:11:07 GMT 10
supremo di kaya nakagulo ang freewill?
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Post by Always on Dec 22, 2006 23:09:59 GMT 10
Ganito iyan, kapag dalawa kayong magkaibigan ay walang walang pero at gutom na gutom na kayo ... ano ang gagawin mo kapag ang pagkain ay nakatiyaya sa mesa sa isang restoran ... kukunin mo ba ito ng hindi nagbabayad o magtitiis ka nalang sa paghihirap ... ano ang gagawin mo ... kaso paano kung nauna ang kasama mo na gumawa ng masamang hakbang ... ano na Nakakalito ba ang FreeWill
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migy
Moderator
moderator in his designated rooms
Posts: 2,544
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Post by migy on Dec 23, 2006 19:24:02 GMT 10
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Post by delta on Jan 10, 2007 10:18:53 GMT 10
Ganito iyan, kapag dalawa kayong magkaibigan ay walang walang pero at gutom na gutom na kayo ... ano ang gagawin mo kapag ang pagkain ay nakatiyaya sa mesa sa isang restoran ... kukunin mo ba ito ng hindi nagbabayad o magtitiis ka nalang sa paghihirap ... ano ang gagawin mo ... kaso paano kung nauna ang kasama mo na gumawa ng masamang hakbang ... ano na Nakakalito ba ang FreeWill
Pinag- uusapan ay pinahintulutan ang masama, at ang mga naging sagot ay pagpili ng tao sa kasamaan. Kapag mamamatay ka na sa gutom ang natural na gagawin ng isang tao lalo at walang pera, ay nakawin ang pagkain sa lamesa, para kainin ang pagkain dahil gutum na gutom na siya. Pinahintulutan ng Diyos ang kasamaan. At dahil gutom at walang pera ang taong yun, gumawa na rin ng masama.
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Post by Always on Jan 10, 2007 20:44:39 GMT 10
Bago ko sagutin ulit ang mga tanong mo na akin nang nasagot ay gusto kong malaman kung ano ba ang mga sinasabi mong mga pinahihintulutan ng Diyos na mga kasamaan at iisa-isa ko silang sagutin ULIT
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Post by rafael on Jan 11, 2007 2:13:32 GMT 10
But man was not created perfect; please show us the verse in the Bible that it was said so
Now Job was a perfect and upright man (Job 1:1),
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Post by Always on Jan 11, 2007 12:23:30 GMT 10
That is the problem when someone just pick the word in its literal sense Job is perfect in a way of being BLAMELESS or without sin Do you know why? Follow the verse and you'll know ... because ... HE FEARED GOD, AND HE STAYED AWAY FROM EVIL
That is the very reason why he is perfect ... he is not created perfect in your own sense of thinking ... but he became perfect in knowing and having God
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Post by delta on Jan 11, 2007 15:58:59 GMT 10
Mahirap naman palang unawain yang perfect na yan. di mo tuloy maintindihan kung paano yung iba pang mga words o berso pag ganyan.
Pagkatapos sasabihing iba ang pag kaunawa, dahil iba iba ang interpretasyon.
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Post by Always on Jan 11, 2007 16:27:58 GMT 10
O cge ganito na lang para madali mong maunawaan Kapag ikaw ay may gf at para sa iyo ay siya na ang pinakaperpektong pares. Nasa kanya na lahat lahat at kaya mo siya dapat pakasalan o pakisamahan dahil nga she's the perfect woman for you KASO ... SA IYO LANG IYON ... SA TINGIN MO LANG IYON ... eh paano na ang tingin ng iba, perfect pa din kaya siya
Subjective po ang tawag sa pananaw na iyan
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Post by rafael on Jan 23, 2007 2:04:16 GMT 10
I don't see any reason why a man must be blameless in the sight of a powerful God who claims he is the only perfect one. If he is not created perfect and yet "perfect" then the word "perfect" has several meaning other than the one that connotes " god" .
As i quoted before, Job was "perfect" but it appears he is and he is not.
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Post by delta on Jan 23, 2007 13:26:44 GMT 10
Subjective pa rin ba ang salitang perfect sa Diyos?
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Post by Always on Jan 23, 2007 18:29:44 GMT 10
TUMPAK!!!
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Post by delta on Jan 25, 2007 13:32:21 GMT 10
Mahirap nga, kung subjective dahil kung iisipin natin malawak ang isip ng Diyos. Hindi nga maiintindihan ng tao kung ganun. Kaya naman pala nagkakagulo at walang katapusan dahil di pwedeng intindihin ang isip ng Diyos.
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Post by Always on Mar 5, 2007 8:43:12 GMT 10
Kaya nga nasa tao ang pagkakamali eh sa dahilang gusto nilang sakupin ang pag-iisip ng Diyos. Hindi dapat kasi ganoon dahil mauunawaan lang natin ang gusto Niyang ipahatid sa tao.
Ang Tao ay hindi miyembro ng Dating Daan para balang araw ay maging dios din at kahit na si dios Eli nila ay wala sa kalingkingan sa tunay na pag-iisip ng Diyos.
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Post by rafael on May 29, 2008 5:02:43 GMT 10
Specify them one at a time, then, we'll talk about it
CHRISTIANS - THE MOST PERSECUTED PEOPLE GROUP ON EARTH
By Anthony Browne, Europe correspondent of the Times.
In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, most of the five million Christians live as an underclass, doing work such as toilet-cleaning. Under the Hudood ordinances, a Muslim can testify against a non-Muslim in court, but a non-Muslim cannot testify against a Muslim. Blasphemy laws are abused to persecute Christians. In the last few years, dozens of Christians have been killed in bomb and gun attacks on churches and Christian schools.
Why?
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Post by Always on May 30, 2008 14:21:29 GMT 10
This is like saying why a Filipino goes to Lebanon for work if he or she knows it's a war-zone country Why citizens of other country do these things to others? It only justify a Christian belief that man is innately evil as oppose to secular belief that man is innately good Yup - Freewill
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Post by rafael on Jun 3, 2008 4:41:44 GMT 10
A freewill to kill and harm Christians? Assuming that John Lennon was a christian and was assasinated in a christian place by another christian is not justifiable for a god to permit. Why does your god allow this?
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Post by Always on Jun 3, 2008 6:32:57 GMT 10
This is like saying that if your lovely wife is having an affair as to why your allowing this kind of evil into your marriage. As the other half, of course you don't allow it, but it happened. your wife exercised her freewill in futility ;D
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Post by rafael on Jun 6, 2008 21:28:17 GMT 10
This is like saying that if your lovely wife is having an affair as to why your allowing this kind of evil into your marriage. As the other half, of course you don't allow it, but it happened. your wife exercised her freewill in futility ;D
Those who believe in this god should be of the highest standard to choose and exercise their freewill. It doesn't make any difference with other fanatics or believers be it pagan god or not. Christians should not claim supremacy over other beliefs if this is the case.
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Post by Always on Jun 7, 2008 0:38:01 GMT 10
"Those who believe in this god should be of the highest standard to choose and exercise their freewill. It doesn't make any difference with other fanatics or believers be it pagan god or not."
It seems that you are at lost again in your shallow ground. Since you' re research is without substance, the term freewill derived from what we call "Common Moral Heritage" and it is true with what you say about other fanatics or about pagans but you are dead wrong when you say about people who do not believe in God or people without god.
You stand in secularism, yet you seem ignorant (no pun intended) about secular morality You must know that in practice (or in reality) secular man treats some abstract values as consistently morals such as justice or fairness, love, and courage. So tell me, how could a secular man treat them such if it leads a life that treats all moral as relative?
Btw, Christian Ethics in one sense is simply an expansion on a moral order that is generally revealed to all men that secular man tried to redefined by not believing in freewill.
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