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Post by rafael on Aug 14, 2006 2:12:59 GMT 10
God allows evil in this world. Then why?
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migy
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moderator in his designated rooms
Posts: 2,544
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Post by migy on Aug 28, 2006 5:57:03 GMT 10
Hi rafael, IMHO, God allowed Freewill in order for us to see what would benefit us all, if God did not gave us Freewill, so is God will not allow Freewill and we would be robots and nothing to choose which way we would choose... Even Lucifer made his choice... satan ask God to bring hardships and trials for job because God knows that job will overcome those purposes.... Just a share from a friend....
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Post by supremo on Aug 28, 2006 7:17:10 GMT 10
God allows evil in this world. Then why? For us to know how good GOD is...
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Post by linsi on Aug 28, 2006 13:12:17 GMT 10
God allows evil in this world. Then why?
When God allowed free will both to angels and man He allowed Lucifer's free will as it was executed by this former angel of light..
when lucifer became satan, the free will was not revoked, satan executed his free will by doing evilness..
man's response to evil is man's choice and the cycle goes on..
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Post by Always on Sept 26, 2006 9:40:54 GMT 10
God allows evil in this world. Then why?
What kind of evil are you talking about here?
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Post by rafael on Sept 27, 2006 4:23:23 GMT 10
God allows evil in this world. Then why?
What kind of evil are you talking about here?
a non-conformity of all that is godly.
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Post by Always on Sept 27, 2006 10:34:55 GMT 10
Specify them one at a time, then, we'll talk about it
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Post by rafael on Oct 3, 2006 3:44:39 GMT 10
God allows evil in this world. Then why?
When God allowed free will both to angels and man He allowed Lucifer's free will as it was executed by this former angel of light..
when lucifer became satan, the free will was not revoked, satan executed his free will by doing evilness..
man's response to evil is man's choice and the cycle goes on..
Granted that it is cyclic, God should have all the control when things get worse.
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Post by rafael on Oct 3, 2006 3:47:07 GMT 10
Specify them one at a time, then, we'll talk about it A good example is the war torn Southern Lebanon. Shall all the greater sufferings fall upon innocent civilians as what happened to Beirut? One example of evil of our times.
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Post by Always on Oct 3, 2006 11:09:23 GMT 10
Let me answer that with questions Why some Filipinos from Luzon go to Mindanao? Is it their desires or their FreeWill to stay in a place where the notion of fighting between the Military and Moslem radicals are always at hand? That is in the same sense as one's life is being risked just by staying in the Middle East. God created the FACT of freedom but people perform the ACTS of freedom
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Post by rafael on Oct 4, 2006 3:28:28 GMT 10
Let me answer that with questions Why some Filipinos from Luzon go to Mindanao? Is it their desires or their FreeWill to stay in a place where the notion of fighting between the Military and Moslem radicals are always at hand? That is in the same sense as one's life is being risked just by staying in the Middle East. God created the FACT of freedom but people perform the ACTS of freedom
A God must know that poor civilians must be spared? Can't he work on something that could spare their lives?
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Post by rafael on Oct 4, 2006 3:31:20 GMT 10
Let me answer that with questions Why some Filipinos from Luzon go to Mindanao? Is it their desires or their FreeWill to stay in a place where the notion of fighting between the Military and Moslem radicals are always at hand? That is in the same sense as one's life is being risked just by staying in the Middle East. God created the FACT of freedom but people perform the ACTS of freedom
If this would be the case, then evil is cyclic and it presents a God who does not seem to care. Why does man suffer if Love is God's emblem?
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Post by Always on Oct 4, 2006 8:27:08 GMT 10
A God must know that poor civilians must be spared? Can't he work on something that could spare their lives? If this would be the case, then evil is cyclic and it presents a God who does not seem to care. Why does man suffer if Love is God's emblem?
First, we need no make a distinction. There is a difference between our knowing the purpose of sufferings and God having a purpose for it. As I previously said, mankind perform the ACTS of freedom. And if God intervenes then freedom is voided. It is the same thing with love freedom is given to us so that we could love Love is the greatest good for all free creatures (just like the dog/master scenario or the teacher/student scenario,) but love is impossible without freedom
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Post by rafael on Oct 5, 2006 2:40:53 GMT 10
First, we need no make a distinction. There is a difference between our knowing the purpose of sufferings and God having a purpose for it. As I previously said, mankind perform the ACTS of freedom. And if God intervenes then freedom is voided. It is the same thing with love freedom is given to us so that we could love Love is the greatest good for all free creatures (just like the dog/master scenario or the teacher/student scenario,) but love is impossible without freedom
What is so confusing to man is ‘freedom. Freedom must be free, if there is a constraint it is not freedom at all. It seems that man was given a lose –lose situation
When a good man play by the good rules he cannot cheat as the bad ones do or else ,the good is forfeited
When bad men play the good rules they take both sides of a crown without losing anything being bad.
Both the good and the bad man knows about love but the rules are not fair.
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Post by linsi on Oct 5, 2006 18:47:25 GMT 10
[quote author=rafael board=beliefs thread=1155485579 post=1159980053]
What is so confusing to man is ‘freedom. Freedom must be free, if there is a constraint it is not freedom at all. It seems that man was given a lose –lose situation
When a good man play by the good rules he cannot cheat as the bad ones do or else ,the good is forfeited
When bad men play the good rules they take both sides of a crown without losing anything being bad.
Both the good and the bad man knows about love but the rules are not fair.
when we speak about love we speak about God, and we are speaking of a river as you said rafael.
Love is both mercy and justice. and when we speak of mercy and justice it is the combination of higher forms of grace which only God could give.
As i said in my earlier posts in other topics, Grace is an unmeritted favor, why God gives it away to us is a presentation of his steadfast love and boundless mercy only He can give and only a believer could feel and understand.
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Post by linsi on Oct 5, 2006 18:53:33 GMT 10
I may agree when you said, understanding God is like a river being poured ona tea cup. God does not expect us to understand all, He does not expect mortal men to fulfill His absolute standard for we cannot, but through His mercy, He gave man an access to his throne only through Christ, if we are speaking about christian doctrines.
God like Love because he is, can only be real when we experience Him in our most personal encounters. When God created man in His image, He gave us, a likeness of Him in the form of spiritual dimension where we can feel and understand something unique that only those who have gone through with it can know.
Man is created a spiritual being also, that is why we can dream and feel and love. All these intangible things which we have like life itself is the image of God.
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Post by Always on Oct 6, 2006 6:11:27 GMT 10
First, we need no make a distinction. There is a difference between our knowing the purpose of sufferings and God having a purpose for it. As I previously said, mankind perform the ACTS of freedom. And if God intervenes then freedom is voided. It is the same thing with love freedom is given to us so that we could love Love is the greatest good for all free creatures (just like the dog/master scenario or the teacher/student scenario,) but love is impossible without freedom
What is so confusing to man is ‘freedom. Freedom must be free, if there is a constraint it is not freedom at all. It seems that man was given a lose –lose situation
When a good man play by the good rules he cannot cheat as the bad ones do or else ,the good is forfeited
When bad men play the good rules they take both sides of a crown without losing anything being bad.
Both the good and the bad man knows about love but the rules are not fair.
What God had joined together, let no man put asunder. Such Law of God regarding marriage is like all of the other commands in the Bible that man must observe :PThus, if man has to cheat then he is separating himself from God. Would you like your dad to cheat on your mom? By knowing what is good from the wrong only shows that even you is under this moral order and consistent of its existence.
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Post by rafael on Oct 10, 2006 3:59:45 GMT 10
There is a belief that God is all moral. If God desires to kill people as in the Old Testament, would say that is good and moral?
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Post by Always on Oct 10, 2006 12:42:21 GMT 10
There is a belief that God is all moral. If God desires to kill people as in the Old Testament, would say that is good and moral?
Give me an example of your closest relative who is very dear to you but died recently, then, I would gladly answer from that in relation to your OT querry.
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Post by rafael on Oct 11, 2006 4:15:49 GMT 10
There is a belief that God is all moral. If God desires to kill people as in the Old Testament, would say that is good and moral?
Give me an example of your closest relative who is very dear to you but died recently, then, I would gladly answer from that in relation to your OT querry.
Couldn't you just answer about my above querries? Talking about who is dear to me would unveil peculiar stories Perhaps i could relate similar situation about somebody else's experience.
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Post by Always on Oct 11, 2006 5:43:40 GMT 10
Does it hurt? Is it still lingering in your mind about that tremendous amount of pain Whatever happened to those prayers--did He listen? To all these, I think it is important to arrive at as much understanding of God and our world as we can, but there comes a time when understanding either comes to an end or is incapable of addressing the depth of the issues we struggle with. A person like you who may have lost someone very dear as is in the same sentiment to those Filipinos who have prayed so hard (about the Lebanon Crisis) for their love ones to be saved and be safed. Or even to minor things such as by losing a job specially when you are in a foreign country. Such crises in life may have an intellectual answer but this does not assuage your rage or theirs over the fact that it was your relative who died or to a more simpler thing of job you lost
So what can I say? I can only speak from the gut. I too have often asked God why lots of people have to die or cut their legs, or have to lose their jobs. And I too have never received an answer. And I too have raged for answer. I just hope God is not offended by these. It is just honesty, and God loves honesty. Like every person, I grew up with a need to feel unconditional love and acceptance from my parents, but this I never felt. And looking back at it, I can see that I grew up with an acute sense of abandonment. The full force of the pain of this did not even hit me until I became an adult and worked for my parents as if I am their own slave.
In the face of many of the things I interpreted as a young kid as being a negative commentary on my self -worth, The Lord showed me that I am lovable (nakz) and infinitely precious in his eyes. And in the face of my need for the unconditionally loving parents I never had growing up, the Lord said , "I want to be that parents to you." and, "He is!" Christ is not our adversary in times of suffering: He is our cure
Christ became that for me. My soul was, and is, filled with the unconditional love of Jesus; and it is the only source for the soul and the only medicine for its wounds. An intellectual answer could never do that My question still remains, but Christ has won my trust in Him by showing me His beauty--the beauty of love, a grace, a tenderness, a gentle strength which no mere human being could ever match.
Going back, what about our prayers - why we never received an answer to our sufferings? Why? As I implied beforehand, we can not always give an answer that satisfies the souls of those who hurt and make sense of their pain. But to those who use this kind of reasoning to deny God's existence or goodness, I can give an answer to that and we must start reconstructing your argument as the one below
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Post by Always on Oct 11, 2006 5:52:26 GMT 10
1. There is no good purpose for much suffering. 2. An all-good God must have a good purpose for everything. 3. So, there can not be an all-good God
or perhaps this way
1. If God is all-good, He would destroy evil. 2. If God is all powerfull, He could destroy evil. 3. But evil is not destroyed. 4. Hence, there is no such God.
We can deal with these problems in two ways. First ... ... ... matulog muna ako at 5:50 am na't wala pa akong tulog, mamaya nalang ulet Okay?
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Post by delta on Oct 11, 2006 23:49:22 GMT 10
One question
May kaibigan kaming may anak na retarded, mabuti naman silang mga tao, bakit yung ibang mga taong alam namin ang kasamaan walang anak na retarded.
Sana may sumagot.
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Post by supremo on Oct 12, 2006 2:49:44 GMT 10
One question
May kaibigan kaming may anak na retarded, mabuti naman silang mga tao, bakit yung ibang mga taong alam namin ang kasamaan walang anak na retarded.
Sana may sumagot.If you know the story of beethoven, certainly you will not feel pity or remorse to them. You see, men seems to look up to the horizon, forgeting that there is "beyond the horizon" in which God only knows. I believe everything that happens, there is a purpose.
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Post by rafael on Oct 12, 2006 5:02:49 GMT 10
One question
May kaibigan kaming may anak na retarded, mabuti naman silang mga tao, bakit yung ibang mga taong alam namin ang kasamaan walang anak na retarded.
Sana may sumagot.If you know the story of beethoven, certainly you will not feel pity or remorse to them. You see, men seems to look up to the horizon, forgeting that there is "beyond the horizon" in which God only knows. I believe everything that happens, there is a purpose.
I still desire a more extensive reply, to tell about beethoven is to present a more dreadful situation which a God musn't have done.
People feel a form of partiality .
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Post by Always on Oct 13, 2006 9:13:41 GMT 10
One question
May kaibigan kaming may anak na retarded, mabuti naman silang mga tao, bakit yung ibang mga taong alam namin ang kasamaan walang anak na retarded.
Sana may sumagot.
Meron mag-asawa na nagta-trabaho sa mother ko at mabuti silang pamilya. Lahat ng tao ay close sa kanila dahil pareho silang mababait. At noong nagkaanak sila ay nabigla ang lahat pati na ang nanay ko dahil naging slow (retarded) ang anak nila. Tinulungan sila ng ina ko na ipatingin ang dahilan.
Nakita na ang mag-asawa ay parehong healthy in most way PERO noong nagbubuntis pala ang babae ay sumobra ang pag-take ng mga vitamins at lalo na noong umiinom siya ng gatas na may iron. YES, na-overdose ang baby habang ito ay nasa tiyan pa lamang
Sa ganun lamang paraan nalinawan ang mag-asawa na wala silang karapatan husgahan ang Diyos kundi tao lamang ang nagkakamali
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Post by delta on Oct 13, 2006 13:43:02 GMT 10
One question
May kaibigan kaming may anak na retarded, mabuti naman silang mga tao, bakit yung ibang mga taong alam namin ang kasamaan walang anak na retarded.
Sana may sumagot.
Meron mag-asawa na nagta-trabaho sa mother ko at mabuti silang pamilya. Lahat ng tao ay close sa kanila dahil pareho silang mababait. At noong nagkaanak sila ay nabigla ang lahat pati na ang nanay ko dahil naging slow (retarded) ang anak nila. Tinulungan sila ng ina ko na ipatingin ang dahilan.
Nakita na ang mag-asawa ay parehong healthy in most way PERO noong nagbubuntis pala ang babae ay sumobra ang pag-take ng mga vitamins at lalo na noong umiinom siya ng gatas na may iron. YES, na-overdose ang baby habang ito ay nasa tiyan pa lamang
Sa ganun lamang paraan nalinawan ang mag-asawa na wala silang karapatan husgahan ang Diyos kundi tao lamang ang nagkakamali
korek, pero ang sinasabi kong mga taong may anak na ganito ay walang mali, pareho pa silang born again.Hindi ba nakakalungkot ito? Bakit pinapayagan ng Diyos na ang mabubuting tao ay maghirap at ang masasama ang masarap ang buhay at ayos ang mga anak.
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Post by Always on Oct 14, 2006 1:55:28 GMT 10
Meron mag-asawa na nagta-trabaho sa mother ko at mabuti silang pamilya. Lahat ng tao ay close sa kanila dahil pareho silang mababait. At noong nagkaanak sila ay nabigla ang lahat pati na ang nanay ko dahil naging slow (retarded) ang anak nila. Tinulungan sila ng ina ko na ipatingin ang dahilan.
Nakita na ang mag-asawa ay parehong healthy in most way PERO noong nagbubuntis pala ang babae ay sumobra ang pag-take ng mga vitamins at lalo na noong umiinom siya ng gatas na may iron. YES, na-overdose ang baby habang ito ay nasa tiyan pa lamang
Sa ganun lamang paraan nalinawan ang mag-asawa na wala silang karapatan husgahan ang Diyos kundi tao lamang ang nagkakamali
korek, pero ang sinasabi kong mga taong may anak na ganito ay walang mali, pareho pa silang born again.Hindi ba nakakalungkot ito? Bakit pinapayagan ng Diyos na ang mabubuting tao ay maghirap at ang masasama ang masarap ang buhay at ayos ang mga anak.
Kasi kagustuhan nila iyon Binigyan tayo ng Diyos ng kalayaan at tayo naman mga tao ang umaakto nitong kalayan na ibinigay sa atin. Tayo pa din mga tao ang pumipili kung ano ang tama at ano ang mali. Maninisi ka ba sa Diyos kung titira ka sa Smokey Mountain kung alam mo na ito ay guguho mala'on. Tungkol sa mga kakilala mo ay maaring hindi nila alam ang ginagawa nilang pag-inom ng mga gamot na maaring nakaapekto sa kanyang anak pero hindi natin maalis na sila pa din ang may gawa kung baket nagkaganun ang kanilang baby. Gayan din si Eba noon na alam niyang masama ang kumain ng prutas pero kinain pa din niya pero sino ang sinisi Ganyang magaling ang tao, kapag may isang bagay na hindi maganda eh meron agad isang bagay na sinisisi ,maging ito man ay tao o hindi
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Post by rafael on Oct 14, 2006 4:31:02 GMT 10
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Post by Always on Oct 14, 2006 14:30:29 GMT 10
One of the things that makes men (and angels) morally perfect is freedom. We have a real choice about what we do. Men create their own destiny. God made us that way so that we could love freely (forced love is not love at all, is it?). But in making us that way, He allowed for the possibility of evil. To be free we had to have not only the opportunity to choose good, but also the ability to choose evil. That was the risk God knowingly took, but it does not make him responsible for evil. Imperfection of men came through the abuse of our moral perfection as free creatures.
Putting it again in this scenario, the same answer replies to the snake God made Satan the most beautiful of all creatures with the perfection of free will. Satan rebelled agaisnt God, and that became the first sin and the pattern for all sin that followed. You may ask, "What made Satan sin?" Tha is like asking what caused the first cause; nothing outside his own free will caused him to sin. He was the first cause of his sin and you can not go back any farther than that. When we sin, ultimately we (by our wills) are the cause of the evil we do in this world.
Why hasn't God done anything about evil? First, evil can not be destroyed - yes, it cannot be destroyed without destroying freedom. As I said before, free beings are the cause of evil, and freedom was given to us so that we could love. Love is the greates good for all free creatures as in reference with the book of Matthew 22:36-37, but love is impossible without freedom. So, if freedom were destroyed which is the only way to end evil, that would be evil in itself, because it would deprive free creatures of their greatest good. Hence, to destroy evil would actually be evil. If evil is to be overcome, we need to talk about it BEING DEFEATED, NOT DESTROYED
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